skirtcafe.org

STEVIE wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:36 pm
I'd lay odds that there is basis in reality for the lyrics of "Boy Named Sue", and the wrestler known as Big Daddy's real name was Shirley Crabtree.
Ye Gods, some of this is tantamount to psychological abuse by proxy, possibly equivalent to sending your son to school in a dress in the full and certain knowledge that he will get the crap beaten out of him.
Not convinced at all.
Steve.
Try this one "Stu Potts", that's nasty?

It is possible to search the names that was given to children here in America. As you noted there are boys been given names as girls and vice a versa for girls as well. I did a research on my name and have noted that several females was given same name as my first name that is traditional boys name. Anybody bets different is making a fools bet. Danielle is a common name used in naming a baby of either sex and the spelling of name really makes no differences.
According to Social Security Administration there have been 519 boys been name Sue and counting. Maybe there should be a law were a child can put parents in jail from trauma received by having a traditional girls name. I question about parents having a sound judgement over child given names. They make bad choices also. Too many parents wouldn't let their sons be referred to Jane if that was child desire as a transgender girl. There is pros and cons on this issue. End of day just let child change name without parents knowledge. To many occasions a parent would refused their child change his/her name and recognized their child as being a transgender.

There was a recent national news story about a boy commit suicide after being receiving constant bulling over his eyewear. This is another common trauma a child face. This type of bulling being happening over the last 70 years and counting.

Stu wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:37 pm When it comes to children, their official name should be chosen or approved by their parents.

Imagine if a child decided to call himself "Hitler" or "Dracula".

That's a strawman. Let stick with things that actually happen. Children don't decide they want to be called something else on a whim.

Stu wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:37 pm That's fine - but teachers would normally use the child's proper name.

That kind of thinking caused me problems at school. I've never used by official first name, my parents never called me by my official name, but by my second name. The name my mum uses in daily life appears nowhere on any official documentation. Some (in particular) English speaking countries cannot understand the concept that the name you use is daily life is not your official name.

Eventually we just got the school records changed so they didn't actually have my real name. This of course led to issues with certificates not having my real name.... you get the drift. I kinda of snowballed from there. There still one account I can't close because the name on the account doesn't match my passport. Because at one point I had a passport with the wrong name.

Living in a country where your "roepnaam" not being your official name is totally normal, none of these problems occur.

mr seamstress wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 8:13 pm There was a recent national news story about a boy commit suicide after being receiving constant bulling over his eyewear. This is another common trauma a child face. This type of bulling being happening over the last 70 years and counting.

I was five years old when I got spectacles/eye glasses.
Never mind a skirt or girl's name that set me up as a target from the get go!
That was so common that it was largely accepted as inevitable.
Let's get back to the girl in America?
If she had been excluded from anything on any other basis, there would be mass protest, spectacles in sports, no way!
Because there is "gender" involved, many will, and do, go along with it.
The question in my mind, name and clothes, where is the harm?
These things change as easily as the direction of the wind so why get uptight when nothing is permanent.
I know very well that my life could have been better, allowed those two demands alone.
From a men in skirts perspective, we will never move forward while this damned petty minded and outdated attitudes persist.
Sadly, I can't see any progress, but definite regress and it's even pervading a lot of dialogue in the cafe.
Steve.

I’ve been here a long time (this forum) and very much appreciate one’s ability to dress as one chooses; however, it’s incredibly irresponsible for adults to participate in this madness. This is not a transgender girl - this is a boy. The biology is quite simple.

Lying to our youth is dangerous.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 5:55 am I was five years old when I got spectacles/eye glasses.

Yes I have the same T-Shirt.

I also have the cute school cap problem T-Shirt. Let me explain, 1968ish 1st day at school. School uniform was the normal with the optional school cap which my mother thought was "sweet" "smart" 'cute"... So guess which one kid turns up in uniform with cap. It was such fun having it knocked off your head, even more fun running after some kid who had grabbed it and legged off up the playing field, only to find when you got close it was passed on to another kid like some ******** rugby ball..... Of course tuning up back home without it was un thinkable.

Writing this I have just realised that I now wear a bush hat in a world of mainly hatless people............Not sure how that makes me feel?........May be my very independent spirit was nurtured in the early years by being singled out. Not sure.....

Layne wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:32 am This is not a transgender girl - this is a boy. The biology is quite simple.

The dividing line on the issue is what "society" is attaching "manhood" and "womanhood" to, and the opinions will vary widely. Unfortunately this may never be resolved.

One side states that to be a man is to be an adult male. Thus "manhood" is strictly tied to biological sex.

The other side states that "manhood" is more tied to masculinity rather than sex, and is further complicated by the claim that people can basically claim to be anything they want... e.g. a "feminine man" could be a man or a woman... nobody really knows.

Personally my needle is moving more towards going back to traditional definitions of gender, while still finding some way to respect people's authenticity... not always an easy needle to thread I'm afraid.

At the end of the day, how someone chooses to live their life is none of my business, and if someone comes up to me and wants to be called a woman, a man, a dinosaur, or a toaster, I will oblige because I honestly don't care. I've got enough of my own problems to work through, and far be it for me to be critical of someone else's life when I can't even get my own act together it seems.

The school system is being an ass. Their actions are not in line with individual freedom of expression. Bottom line, an authority figure mandated mob rule (in this case Mississippi values) over an individual.

We don't have to agree or understand transgender issues, but we can't sit here and say on the one hand that we live in a free society where everyone can chart their own course through life and on the other hand invoke arbitrary social customs on minority groups because we may find it not in accordance with certain opinions regarding "moral fiber".

You can't have it both ways. As they say, "your right to swing a fist ends at my nose..."

People should be allowed to self identify.
If there are problems making that work then ways should be found to deal with those problems.
There should be no opinions on this, it should be a basic right to exist.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:32 pmPeople should be allowed to self identify.

As what? Orangutans? Lawn-mowers?

If there are problems making that work then ways should be found to deal with those problems.
There should be no opinions on this, it should be a basic right to exist.

That's akin to guaranteeing freedom from religion in a Constitution. It really can't be done gracefully. At some point, toes are going to get stepped on. The question then becomes, "how softly?"

Layne wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:32 am I’ve been here a long time (this forum) and very much appreciate one’s ability to dress as one chooses; however, it’s incredibly irresponsible for adults to participate in this madness. This is not a transgender girl - this is a boy. The biology is quite simple.
Lying to our youth is dangerous.

Who said anything about telling lies Layne?
Yes, the biology is simple until there is reassignment and irreversible treatment, but the psychology is certainly not!
Let me repeat, age 5 I'd have been more than happy to dress like and be addressed as, a girl.
I had no way of expressing that I wished to become one because that concept was beyond me.
I was also too damn scared to actually tell anyone.
I was never lied to because no one knew and by the time I discovered all the possibilities my personal biology was fixed.
Fact is that, if I had been allowed that much at that age, in my mind I'd have been transformed to my satisfaction.
Other developments may, or may, not have followed, we will never know.
What I do know is that my formative years and journey into adulthood were needlessly hard on me and my emotional wellbeing.
I am not exaggerating when I say that without the help that I received at the right time from the right people, I'd probably not be here now.
Simple, really, I do not think so and I find a greater danger in the assertion that it is.
That's the truth!
Steve.

People push the limits, and something that could be a good thing is ridiculed out of existence. Take note that the whole pronoun thing is now almost at an end.

The use of pronouns was ridiculed out of existence. What does that remind you of? One of biggest reason men don't wear skirts is fear of ridicule. It's a very powerful tool.

Any change is going to step on someone's toes. That doesn't mean it should not happen. You just need to find a way to either placate them or ignore their whining.

Mouse wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:44 am

STEVIE wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 5:55 am I was five years old when I got spectacles/eye glasses.

Yes I have the same T-Shirt.

Same here, I've often wondered if this is why i'm a bit hesitant to just get out there in a skirt infront of anyone who might know me.

crfriend wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:52 pm That's akin to guaranteeing freedom from religion in a Constitution. It really can't be done gracefully.

Umm, am I missing something, but freedom from religion is precisely what we should be aiming for? You can practice any religion you like, as like as it doesn't affect me. The result of all those religious wars in Europe was precisely so that people could live without being affected by someone else's religion. This is also the position the ECHR and Dutch constitution take. It's the Americans with their "no state religion" and lack of comprehensive "freedom of expression" that allows religions such on hold on the political process.

rode_kater wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:18 pm It's the Americans with their "no state religion" and lack of comprehensive "freedom of expression" that allows religions such on hold on the political process.

Actually, if you boil it all down, we have more freedom of expression in the U.S. now than at any point in history. Not only in the big cities but also in the rural areas.

The issue is a lot of people complain about this freedom. Sometimes they even support politicians that work to roll back these freedoms, we see this a lot in southern [conservative] states. But usually courts uphold individual liberty and strike down most of the ridiculous laws. Other laws like Tennessee's drag ban I think were blown out of proportion by the media, at least I've not heard of any gender non-conforming person being hauled off in cuffs for simply walking down the street.

But here's the deal, freedom of speech and expression works both ways. Yes, one has the right to be trans, but people also have the right to not respect pronouns.

BUT, far be it for me to latch myself to any ideology, liberal, conservative, or otherwise. All of them will nail your ass to a cross if the mood strikes them.

There are no friends in politics. I'll respect people, trans, anti-trans, etc... but I ain't sticking my neck out for any of them.

I'm happy to be in the U.S., and I'm happy to stay out of the way.

Who said anything about telling lies Layne?
Yes, the biology is simple until there is reassignment and irreversible treatment, but the psychology is certainly not!


Like it or not - we don’t all get “our own truth”. There is but one truth in every conversation. Present however you want, live as you wish, but don’t expect me to accept who you pretend to be if you couldn’t accept who you are.

Layne wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:24 am There is but one truth in every conversation

Not true. You'll never find truth when two politicians have a conversation.