skirtcafe.org

dressedbrewer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:29 am
The cafe is a great support but I don't think 'what others might think' is always unfounded. Those with young kids for example need to be cognisant if what their peers will think and what bullying they might be subjected to

Barleymower wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:39 am

dressedbrewer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:29 am
The cafe is a great support but I don't think 'what others might think' is always unfounded. Those with young kids for example need to be cognisant if what their peers will think and what bullying they might be subjected to

I have a son 9, he wears a skirt and proud of it. He's not in the least bit effeminate. His favourite discussions are tanks, guns of ww2 and Minecraft dungeons. He's been to school in a skirt and a dress. Yes he's had some comments but in true fashion he has seen them off. Even a teacher had pop at him by asking if he is a girl.
My daughter is at senior school and is nonbinary along with a lot of other kids at school. One boy is trans and the girls let him (them) use the girls toilets with no problems. He gets bullied in the boys toilets. No boys trans or otherwise wear skirts to school.
The bullying threat (you will get bullied if you do that) is what is keeping boys who want to wear skirts to school in Lane. Dismantle that and things will change. Trouble is, it is also being used by those who disagree with men in skirts to stop them.
So yes I, my son and my daughter are very 'cognisant' of what we are up against but unless we are prepared to go out there, then nothing with change.
Can the skirt ever be masculine? It is masculine. It is the person inside that determines the gender of the wearer not the garment.

dressedbrewer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:08 pm

Barleymower wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:39 am

dressedbrewer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:29 am
The cafe is a great support but I don't think 'what others might think' is always unfounded. Those with young kids for example need to be cognisant if what their peers will think and what bullying they might be subjected to

I have a son 9, he wears a skirt and proud of it. He's not in the least bit effeminate. His favourite discussions are tanks, guns of ww2 and Minecraft dungeons. He's been to school in a skirt and a dress. Yes he's had some comments but in true fashion he has seen them off. Even a teacher had pop at him by asking if he is a girl.
My daughter is at senior school and is nonbinary along with a lot of other kids at school. One boy is trans and the girls let him (them) use the girls toilets with no problems. He gets bullied in the boys toilets. No boys trans or otherwise wear skirts to school.
The bullying threat (you will get bullied if you do that) is what is keeping boys who want to wear skirts to school in Lane. Dismantle that and things will change. Trouble is, it is also being used by those who disagree with men in skirts to stop them.
So yes I, my son and my daughter are very 'cognisant' of what we are up against but unless we are prepared to go out there, then nothing with change.
Can the skirt ever be masculine? It is masculine. It is the person inside that determines the gender of the wearer not the garment.

Genuinely, huge kudos to you for raising kids with great self confidence and the support you give them, and for having the courage to face the public in whatever you wish to wear.

As a father of girls they have the freedom to wear what they wish so they don't face the challenges that your son does in school. My concern is what they would face if I was to publicly wear a skirt. Knowing the small town we live in and the attitudes of parents that gets passed to and through other kids, I, at least for the moment, need to be conscious of what others think because of school yard crap. Similar applies for my wife.
It is one thing for someone to be subjected to comments because of their own actions, something else when it is because of another's actions.

Would the gossip and snide ***** disappear after a while, probably, but we, as a family, are not at a point in our lives where we join this battle personally.

bikesaurus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:17 pm jamie001 wrote:
> Skirts are inherently feminine and do not need to be masculinized. When we
> wear a skirt, we should be proud that we are doing something feminine and
> taking on feminine characteristics. It is a wonderful step for the
> evolution of men. Be proud of your femininity and own it!

I don't necessarily agree that skirts are inherently feminine. There are plenty of cultures where all genders wear unbifurcated garments, many of which are not that different from many of the women's skirts that are out there. We tend to think of them as feminine purely because our society codes them as such.

Personally, I've always struggled to understand what makes something masculine vs feminine. After getting bullied at a young age, I learned pretty quickly that I should present myself as other masculine folks do simply because it's what society expects of me. I've always used external cues to present myself masculine mostly out of fear of rejection.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:11 am

bikesaurus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:17 pm jamie001 wrote:
> Skirts are inherently feminine and do not need to be masculinized. When we
> wear a skirt, we should be proud that we are doing something feminine and
> taking on feminine characteristics. It is a wonderful step for the
> evolution of men. Be proud of your femininity and own it!

I don't necessarily agree that skirts are inherently feminine. There are plenty of cultures where all genders wear unbifurcated garments, many of which are not that different from many of the women's skirts that are out there. We tend to think of them as feminine purely because our society codes them as such.

Personally, I've always struggled to understand what makes something masculine vs feminine. After getting bullied at a young age, I learned pretty quickly that I should present myself as other masculine folks do simply because it's what society expects of me. I've always used external cues to present myself masculine mostly out of fear of rejection.

bikesaurus, I had the same experience as a child and also learned to behave as expected.
Moreover I distinctly remember the girls chatting together in skirts at school and I was desperate to join them. When I started becoming interested in girls it was a very confusing time - I thought how can this be? I now know it is entirely possible and is not that unusual.
The gender straight jacket we live with is wrong but it works for the majority and that's all that matters.

Faldaguy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:22 am
but the image of man in one driving a bulldozer might genuinely raise questions about his sanity!

TSH wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:58 pm The idea that this specific piece of clothing can be "this" or "that" is poppycock to begin with, so yes, a skirt definitely can. Even if we fool ourselves and not take kilts into consideration, the idea that skirts are inherently feminine is just nonsense. Bras are inherently feminine because they were always designed for breasts in mind — which are a biologically female human trait. Jockstraps are the same for males. That's about it as far as "gendered"-clothing is concern. Pants were considered strictly "masculine" for a good while until the middle of the 20th century; women started wearing them, and now they aren't. It's sad men hasn't done the same with skirts.

jamie001 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:05 am

TSH wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:58 pm The idea that this specific piece of clothing can be "this" or "that" is poppycock to begin with, so yes, a skirt definitely can. Even if we fool ourselves and not take kilts into consideration, the idea that skirts are inherently feminine is just nonsense. Bras are inherently feminine because they were always designed for breasts in mind — which are a biologically female human trait. Jockstraps are the same for males. That's about it as far as "gendered"-clothing is concern. Pants were considered strictly "masculine" for a good while until the middle of the 20th century; women started wearing them, and now they aren't. It's sad men hasn't done the same with skirts.

A bra is not strictly feminine. Men that are overweight or have gynomastia can make use of a bra.

TheSkirtedMan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:08 pm Why "Can a skirt ever look masculine"? A skirt is a skirt and if another has an issue with a man in a skirt it is because its a skirt regardless of how masculine it may look.

Wear what you want, be you as you prefer to be and just get on with life. Nobody is perfect in the eyes of another for many, many reasons. We all have differing perceptions and preference.

e2k2houck wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:40 am I think its more how you carry yourself is how you can make clothing be masculine.