Can men in skirts look sexy? Is this allowed?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
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JeffB1959
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Post by JeffB1959 »

crfriend wrote:
JeffB1959 wrote:Speaking just for myself, I wouldn't want people to see me and say, "Damn! That guy's wearing a skirt!", but rather, "Damn! That guy looks great in a skirt!"
Perhaps even better would be a reaction of, "Damn! That guy looks great!" I'm not playing down the skirt aspect; I'm playing to the aspect that the overall look can trump the perceived oddity of seeing a guy in a skirt, and that it's the overall look that's key.
Upon further review, I agree with you completely. That's certainly a better way to phrase what I had said. Yes, using a skirt as part of an overall image should be the ultimate goal. Brilliant!

:D
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Post by Sylvain »

ChristopherJ wrote:In times gone by men used to dress very elaborately. I'm thinking of the 1500's and later. They wore embroidered stockings, had silk flowers on their shoes, wore skirts that barely covered their bum and wore a 'cod piece' to cover their best bits. I can't give more detail here as I would have to hunt out reference books - but my point is that men used to dress elaborately - presumably to look good to the other sex.
Or perhaps to show how rich they were, so they could pay all this luxury stuff.
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On "class" and finery

Post by crfriend »

Or perhaps to show how rich they were, so they could pay all this luxury stuff.
True, the truly ostentatious fashions tended to be a statement of how wealthy one (and, by extension, one's family) was, but the notion did trickle down to the peasant class (roughly the equivalent of "wage slave" today) and they did the best they could to emulate the strata "above" them.

Before mens' fashion went to hell following the French Revolution (I'm backing off from an earlier assertion of mine that the Industrial Revolution was a primary driver) there was a wide range of fashion that was worn by the "common man" (and, I suspect, that most of us here fall into the realm of "common folk") -- a range that included things like tunics and frocks. The finest fabrics, cuts, and designs were limited pretty much to nobility, and that's true even today. Take for instance the "affordable suit" (read, "that's all we can afford") that most blokes in the working class wear today when on job interviews; they're a far cry from the highly polished and tailored thousand-plus dollar suits that the alpha and beta dogs at the company will wear So, the notions of intimidation and "societal" stratum based in fashion are still very much with us.

I am reminded of the old adage, "Dress the part of the position you want to be in." Well, the ability to do that, without having exceptional sewing skills yourself (or cheap access to someone who does), is conveniently out of reach for the common working stiff. And so the situation remains unchanged.

In an interesting way, and perhaps one of the reasons that western society at large is unsure of how to respond to a man wearing a skirt is that we're standing the entire notion of that stratified structure on its ear -- we're out there happily raising our middle finger to the notion that "clothes are indicative of class" (and anybody that even hints that western societies are even slightly "classless" needs his eyes and mind examined). The net result is that we're in outright defiance of quite a few unwritten rules -- and, I suspect that gender-based ones may actually be in the minority.

I wonder if this line of thinking is worth pursuing....
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BrotherTailor

Post by BrotherTailor »

This may be going off topic... but I think crfriend has triggered a thought in my mind.

I am a part of the "common" class of men, I live among and work among them and am one of them. There is a hard to define sense of pride in the fact of being the "working class". and there is also a pride in ordering our outward behaviours to reflect that class status.

Where I am, in a community barely one generation removed from church sponsored square dances, quilting circles, barn raisings and threshing bees, it is a badge of honour to wear jeans and a t shirt. For a man to wear a suit other than to church is "show-offy" and unusual. For a man to even wear a sport coat and tie is odd. I wore a pair of corduroy trousers, a brown and creamy checked shirt with a complimentary tie and a tweed jacket to a Christmas dinner/meeting last year and was ribbed and kidded about it for months, as everyone else wore jeans and casual shirts. (and this was at a fairly upscale restaurant)

to "dress up" and care about how you look is to be perceived as "raising" oneself a notch higher on the social ladder. That is a no-no. One must be content to slob through their life in jeans, coveralls, and t shirts and sweatshirts, men and women alike, that is the uniform of the class I belong to.

For me to wear a kilt is simply beyond belief :shock:

People really need to "get out" more I think... :roll: see the world...broaden their horizons a bit.

It is a class thing. And for a man to not only step across class barriers, but also gender barriers is incomprehensible to most people. It will take a lot of positive exposure before this entrenched perception will begin to dissolve.

It truly boggles me. (I'm rambling here) I was on the road today working, and noting very carefully the way the women were attired. Every woman/girl I saw was wearing some form of trouser, whether it be denim jeans, polyester slacks, or shorts. No skirts/dresses at all. It was a beautiful autumn day, fairly warm and sunny, with only moderate breezes. If I were a woman I'd be revelling in these last few precious warm days by wearing some sort of autumn flavoured dress or skirt. I do believe that the days of seeing working class women dressed in conservative dresses/skirts is over. The younger set still wear "skirts" but it is not fashionable at all, just little miniskirts with their abdomen hanging out or even worn over jeans! yuck. Perhaps the higher classes in more urban regions may dress differently, I'm not familiar with that aspect.

So I'm all for knocking down class barriers with regards to fashion along with gender barriers. :twisted:
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Post by Emerald Witch »

ChristopherJ wrote:... these days men seem to dress down in respect of their sexuality - to minimise it - while women often dress to emphasise it. There seems to be unwritten social rules that control this. It never used to be like this.
I guess a lot would depend on whether you agree that wearing flowery prints and lace etc. equals an emphasis on sexuality. I know I for one thought that the cast of the Matrix looked pretty darned hot in their pvc/leather getups and mirrored shades, and not a bit of lace or flowers or color was to be seen anywhere.

I agree that mostly the display of fabrics and laces like that was a display of wealth, not actually intended for direct sexiness. Okay, in a lot of people's minds $$$=sexy, but as soon as machinery made such fabrics affordable to the middle classes, the upper classes dropped those fashions like a red-hot horseshoe. Same thing happens today. Once K-Mart gets hold of a Gucci bag and designs a knockoff that looks pretty darned close to the original, do you think any self-respecting millionaire wants to walk around holding a Gucci that anyone might think came from K-Mart?

People don't design for comfort. They design for status. They design for impact. They design to send messages about their place in the world. "Hello, I'm a Policeman. See? I've got the hat."

So you don't waste time talking to the man, you talk to the hat.

In the Middle Ages there were laws governing what a person could and could not wear, and the penalties for breaking those laws were severe. Dressing above your station was tantamount to impersonating an officer. People talked to the clothes, and it gave you certain rights and priviledges. And even if your family was on the verge of starvation, you would still dress yourself in full regalia to go out there and hoe the radishes if need be, because to dress like a farmer would not be practical, it would be to change who you were.

In the same sense, there are verses in the Bible about "not dressing in the clothes of the opposite gender". And this was before there even WERE tr*users. But somehow it was held that to put on clothes which made you look like someone other than who your society expected you to be would freak people out so badly that it was a sin of pretty epic proportions. I believe stoning was the punishment of the day. (It was the answer for most of their problems back then, I suppose.)

But back to the original question: Should a man intentionally dress to be sexy? I'd say that's entirely up to the man. Who am I to tell anybody what they "should" do?

I'd say a better question might be "what do you find sexy about men in skirts" or "what skirt fashions do you think look sexiest?" if you're interested in the subject.
BrotherTailor

Post by BrotherTailor »

People talked to the clothes, and it gave you certain rights and priviledges....But somehow it was held that to put on clothes which made you look like someone other than who your society expected you to be would freak people out so badly that it was a sin of pretty epic proportions....
quote by Emerald Witch
----------------------------------------

Emerald,
your comment reminds me of my experiences yesterday and today! I wore my kilt to work and found that all the people I was chatting to were fidgety, looking away (at anything but my kilt...) and wanting to bolt and run away, but were talking out of duty, wishing I were dressed otherwise. Today i was in overalls according to reg's and spent the day chatting and joking with clients all day, never once causing a ripple. I was a "different person" in a kilt. They did not know how to speak with "me" because I was not in the customary uniform they identify with "me". They do indeed "talk to the clothes"...very sad.
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Post by ChristopherJ »

I guess a lot would depend on whether you agree that wearing flowery prints and lace etc. equals an emphasis on sexuality. I know I for one thought that the cast of the Matrix looked pretty darned hot in their pvc/leather getups and mirrored shades, and not a bit of lace or flowers or color was to be seen anywhere.
I didn't mention flowery prints or lace. So I must presume you equate these with looking sexy or sensual? :shock:

I certainly don't.

The guys in the Matrix would have looked a lot better if they had worn skirts and black hose under those leather coats - in my opinion.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood . . .
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Post by Milfmog »

BrotherTailor wrote:I wore my kilt to work and found that all the people I was chatting to were fidgety, looking away (at anything but my kilt...) and wanting to bolt and run away, but were talking out of duty, wishing I were dressed otherwise. Today i was in overalls according to reg's and spent the day chatting and joking with clients all day, never once causing a ripple. I was a "different person" in a kilt. They did not know how to speak with "me" because I was not in the customary uniform they identify with "me". They do indeed "talk to the clothes"...very sad.
Interesting! I've never noticed this effect around people I know. I don't go to work skirted on regular working days (not consistent with the dress code) but if I'm in at the weekend I figure it's my time I'll dress how I want. After some initial curiosity, and perhaps a little mickey taking, my colleagues treat me exactly as they do when I'm in trousers.

My experiences in social groups has been similar. The only "talking to the clothes" I've noted is with strangers, but the majority of that has been people asking why and then continuing to have a longer conversation, I've met some very interesting people that way.

Have fun,


Ian.
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Post by Emerald Witch »

ChristopherJ wrote:
I guess a lot would depend on whether you agree that wearing flowery prints and lace etc. equals an emphasis on sexuality.
I didn't mention flowery prints or lace. So I must presume you equate these with looking sexy or sensual? :shock:

I certainly don't.
Geez, pick it all apart whydon'tcha?

OKAY, they wore "embroidered stockings, had silk flowers on their shoes, wore skirts that barely covered their bum and wore a 'cod piece' to cover their best bits." I ELABORATED to include the fact that they wore lace, and just plain messed up the fact that they wore flowery JAQUARDS instead of flowery prints, neither of which you mentioned. I apologize.

Are you friggin sadisfied?

The points I made about wealth displayed through clothing were valid, and I thought that is what you might have picked up on, sugar.

No, I have no sense of humor today. I am stressed out. I am starting college, and life is tough on me. So there. :P
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Post by crfriend »

Interesting! I've never noticed [the "talk to the clothes"] effect around people I know. I don't go to work skirted on regular working days (not consistent with the dress code) but if I'm in at the weekend I figure it's my time I'll dress how I want. After some initial curiosity, and perhaps a little mickey taking, my colleagues treat me exactly as they do when I'm in trousers.
That seems in line with my personal experiences as well. True, one's friends will make quite a few jokes in the beginning, but they usually shut up after a few go-rounds. They also already know you, and what your personal skills and talents are, so may be less likely to "talk to the clothes" than total strangers.

My friends were relentless for the first couple of times they saw me in a skirt, and given the lot I hang with, was fully to be expected; we're a no-holds-barred crowd, and one that holds virtually nothing sacred when it comes to delivering a jab in fun. It's a "tough crowd" -- but, it's a crowd with immense sensitivity and caring for one another; if somebody is feeling out of sorts or needs help asking is usually unnecessary because we step up to help each other.

I found BrotherTailor's stated experience as being a bit odd because clearly (or at least that's the impression I got) he was around people who know him. Perhaps he lives in a very conservative (classic meaning) area.
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Post by crfriend »

Emerald Witch wrote:No, I have no sense of humor today. I am stressed out. I am starting college, and life is tough on me. So there. :P
Emmy -- Good luck in college! And I'll bet that everybody here knows what it's like to have a sense of humour evaporate for a few days. You'll pull through.

(Cue Monty Python's "Always look on the Bright Side of Life".)
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Can men in skirts look sexy? Is this allowed?

Post by Peter v »

Hallo, You are only sexy when another person is attracted to you, has interest in you. Possibly is stimulated by your appearance. I believe looking sexy has nothing to do with sex directly in that sense, but more looking complete in mind and body, healthy, apealing in the fact that you show that you take care of your self, dress suitably for the occasion, are of sound mind, and so on. Therefore anybody, man or female who is well dressed in whatever can be thought of as "sexy".

If lace stokkings suit you then a man wearing a skirt and lace stokkings can also be "sexy". To others it's not done. Your attire hast to suit you.

The problem here is that men think through their you know what, and are constantly searching for any one to conquer ( sexually) This is quite normal for men, but can cloud the judgement.

If you wear a skirt you can look masculine or femanine, or anything in between, depending on how you are built, look and are clothed. You can be sexy ( interesting, appealing to women ) dressed in both ways. Don't forget that femanine is not "travestite" but an appreciation for "softer", more delicate things and ways.

To some people you are sexy when you don't give a damn, about any thing. :shock: And to other people sexy is when you show your genitals, so What is sexy?


So I believe sexy is when somebody is attracted to you, as a whole, regardless of what you wear. Or what you wear is only half of being sexy.

Peter,
From cold, wet and windy Holland.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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Post by ChristopherJ »

Hallo, You are only sexy when another person is attracted to you, has interest in you. Possibly is stimulated by your appearance. I believe looking sexy has nothing to do with sex directly in that sense, but more looking complete in mind and body, healthy, apealing in the fact that you show that you take care of your self, dress suitably for the occasion, are of sound mind, and so on. Therefore anybody, man or female who is well dressed in whatever can be thought of as "sexy".
I agree - but I think I need to clarify what I meant when I started the thread.

People wear clothes to keep warm and dry, to feel good about themselves and to look good to other people. Looking good to other people is a huge part of wearing clothes. Women's fashions seem to reflect this, in that women's fashions are often designed to attract attention - perhaps by bright colours, by revealing skin, by striking styles etc. Men's fashions, on the other hand, seem to be completely the opposite - in that they are almost uniformly drab and conform to a very limited repertoire of style.

Now - I think we can accept that womens fashions enables them to dress in a sexy manner if and when they choose to. (By sexy here, I mean using the clothes to deliberately attract attention from the opposite sex). So a woman might wear a short skirt, a tight fitting skirt, a slit skirt - or she might wear fishnet tights, or a low cut dress etc. etc. All of those fashion choices for a woman emphasise some part of the female body. Men do not have any similar options in their current fashion repertoire. At all. And this strikes me as odd - because they used to.

What can a man wear that equates to the 'sexy' fashion styles that a women can adopt?

Anyhow - without going on too much - my idea for this thread was to ponder the question of whether a man in a skirt can imitate a woman's fashion choices in some respects, by dressing to look sexy?
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BrotherTailor

Post by BrotherTailor »

crfriend wrote:
Interesting! I've never noticed [the "talk to the clothes"] effect around people I know. I don't go to work skirted on regular working days (not consistent with the dress code) but if I'm in at the weekend I figure it's my time I'll dress how I want. After some initial curiosity, and perhaps a little mickey taking, my colleagues treat me exactly as they do when I'm in trousers.
That seems in line with my personal experiences as well. True, one's friends will make quite a few jokes in the beginning, but they usually shut up after a few go-rounds. They also already know you, and what your personal skills and talents are, so may be less likely to "talk to the clothes" than total strangers.

My friends were relentless for the first couple of times they saw me in a skirt, and given the lot I hang with, was fully to be expected; we're a no-holds-barred crowd, and one that holds virtually nothing sacred when it comes to delivering a jab in fun. It's a "tough crowd" -- but, it's a crowd with immense sensitivity and caring for one another; if somebody is feeling out of sorts or needs help asking is usually unnecessary because we step up to help each other.

I found BrotherTailor's stated experience as being a bit odd because clearly (or at least that's the impression I got) he was around people who know him. Perhaps he lives in a very conservative (classic meaning) area.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
crfriend et al,
I work alone on the road. These people I'm referring to are clients, people who see me rarely (its been over a year since I've covered that territory). They know only my face and perhaps my name, and the fact that I'm a company technician. They don't know where I live, or anything else. I cover 6 different territories as a contract fill-in employee, so I know a lot of people, very few of whom are friends, and none are coworkers. In fact I seldom run into another coworker...maybe once every couple of weeks.

And they are all "serious as heart attack" WASP farmers.
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Post by Peter v »

Hallo I agree wholehartedly with you, Christopher, women clothe themselves rather uninhibited, unlike men, and women and men can also both be "handsom" but wheather or not they always have "sexy" in mind when they dress up is the question. You can look very good, and want attention of the other sex, but you can look the same just because you like to look that way. Sexy is also when you are pleasing to the eye of others. Also it can be that when your intentions are clear, then you can see wheather you are sexy or only look sexy. Something like, "look at me, aren't I just something, you like?" Still there?

Many men often think any woman that looks "healthy" is worth going after, and then.... I don't want to be sexy in a skirt if it means that men go after me. :shock: :shock: That is where we have to think about what it means to US. When a woman puts on a short skirt, wears high heels and a revealing top, that doesn't mean anything but that she chose to put that on. ( We men can clothe the same :oops: :shock: :P :P :roll: and also look good. But ofcourse we generally under normal circumstances don't want to attract attention to the same parts of the body that women may do when dressed that way, or at least where men often only think about).

She might be a good looker and enjoys the attention she gets. It's the attention that satisfies and is acchieved by dressing suitably to others satisfaction. She might just be doing shopping. Yet when she is like that in a bar, and looking at you in a special way, giving signals, that is sexy.

The problem with the word sexy is that it can be interpretated in different ways. For a man to look sexy, can mean that he is looking really good. It does not have any reference to being feminine, or wanting contact with the other sex.

So when we can define what we mean by sexy, it is easier to see if people conform to that definition. You can look "sexy" ( meaning attracting positive attention and appraisal ) in just nearly any clothing. It is your whole presentation that shows how you are and then gets the appreciation it deserves.

One thing comes to mind, don't think that being "sexy"makes you the deer instead of being the hunter. That is a misconception and is Macho thinking ( nothing wrong with that ) but does the hunter realise that often the deer stalks the hunter?

All the things mentioned about women are also for men.

If anything, these forums on men wearing skirts, and also pantys ( as another form of soks) puts to light the shortcummings of words that describe in what category people you belong to. And there should be new words thought out, and existing words redefined to fit the modern times we live in, especially with regards to men acting differently than expected of them in the past century. You have men and women, cross dressers and travestites. That is about it. So what do you call a man who wears a skirt? A Freestyler? People need to know what certain definitions mean now, in 2007, not what they thought they meant in 1900. When there is a more sensible meaning to some widely used words, people can relate to them and give what they see a place in the right context.

This is something that we in Holland are trying to address also.

I hope what I have said makes sense to others, I do go on sometimes. :P
But when it is important to you that is what you do. :D

Peter v
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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