BUYING A SKIRT

[alexthebird]

But overall --- guys who like to wear skirts are not really an oppressed group, nor is it a "lifestyle." For example, the LGBT community has it much worse. One can make a convincing case that women in general are more oppressed as well (in spite of greater freedom of clothing choice).

Well! Having agreed 100% with everything you've said up to this point I wonder whether it is peculiarly a "USA" viewpoint, compared to the UK, though?

This discussion is really touching on what I brought up a couple of days ago in Men in skirts, women and gays. Merlin's question looks like a really good one to me and I wonder how big the legal and status differences are in the UK and the US? In some parts of the US there is no social status differentiation between gays & lesbians and heterosexuals. In others, there is active hostility and social discrimination. Legally, there is less geographic differentiation because only one or two states give gays and lesbians the potential legal status of a spouse, thus creating significant difficulties when it comes to health care, child custody, inheritances, etc.

[Emerald Witch]

God didn't intend me to be en femme. I am way too furry and generally built completely the wrong way.

I've never met you, but I have to disagree with the wording of your statement. I think big, burly, furry men can be completely charming in lipstick and heels and anything feminine they wish to wear. Now, personally, I do think they look completely ridiculous when they put on fake breasts, but that's just because I'm a purist -- I believe everyone should be proud of the body they inhabit, and not try to falsify it into being somebody else's body. "Make the most of what you've got" is my motto!

Maybe my point of view is odd. I don't apologize if it is. I just think everyone has the right to enjoy rich fabrics like silks and lovely drapey rayons, fine weaves like satins and jaquards, elegant laces and ribbons, details like piping and darts and embroidery and sequins... that everyone has the right to grow their hair to any length they find comfortable and flattering, everyone has the right to have facial hair or not, to wear makeup or not, to have clothes that fit and flatter their bodies precisely, and to feel like a million bucks all the time. If anyone calls that "femme", let them. Not my problem.

But then... Easy for me to speak... I am a girl after all... But I swear I would say the same thing even if I were a guy!

Dang. Just when I thought I'd said something so darned inspirational...

[Emerald Witch]

Miss Witch, the prejudice we face is as follows:

First of all, Bob, may I say thank you for your excellent manners, and apologize for my own. I want to reply to your post in full, but as your post was quite long it will take some time. I generally have only one hour each day to devote to ALL my internet requirements, and this reply might very well exceed the need for that entire hour to do it justice. Therefore I will beg off a decent response for yet another day, and leave you with a promise that you have been noticed and not forgotten.

[skirtedsailor]

Some interesting views for sure. I have bought/tried on several skirts in Walmart/Target but haven't found one that fits well. I wear a womens 18 or 20 depending on the sizing and find many stores don't have the size/style combination i'm looking for. The exception is Old Navy. My best buying experience there happened while trying on a denim knee lenght skirt. The dressing room attendent, who was a guy, asked thorugh the door if I was okay and needed another size. Without thinking I responded yes I need the next size up, and handed him a the skirt I had just tried on. I was mortified even though he couldn't see me! A minute later he brought back the skirt in the larger size and had another style he said I might like. It was amazing, like the weight had been lifted off me. Now, I have no problem shopping or asking for help. Only issue is that some stores only have dressing rooms for women, I haven't asked to go in yet...

[r.m.anderson]

Thread reposted from the Atrium Forum:

You really should have "NO" problems with using a fitting room.
You made mention of using JCP and Kohls -

i have never tried on womans clothes in a all womans store. most times its
in a kohls or penneys that has both. -

These stores are big enough to have fitting rooms for each sex.
Simply select the items you want to try for size and head for the appropriate
room. With WalMart the fitting room is shared by both and the person operating
the room will direct you to an open room.

I recently was in NC and shopped a Belks store (womens only - mens and children
are in a separate store). I came across a Tommy Hilfiger pair of shorts that
I wanted but was unsure of the size. The sales lady I first spoke with about
using a fitting room was a bit fazed by my request but called her manager who
came over and cleared the fitting room so that I could size up my shorts.
Fortunately I guessed correctly and the size was perfect and bought the shorts
as well as a few other items. A quick thinking manager solved the problem.
Option was to buy the shorts take them out of the store to try on and if wrong
return them with some hassel. The shorts incidentaly were '"Short" Shorts'!
I detest the fad of wearing baggy crotch/ankle tripping pants that don't stay up.

One thing I have found very helpful is carrying a small tape measure to see if
the clothing item will be at least close to my size measurements before trying.
I do not wear dresses because I do not like them. Skirts skorts and shorts are
my preferences. I am not fazed by the reverse zipper or button placket on polo
shirts/blouses. Like the shoe - "If it fits; wear it"!

Some sales people in the clothing business will tell you that there is about as
many women shopping the mens side of the asile for their own clothing needs as
the reverse.

As Steven wrote:
Go for it with confidence. You'll never regret it.

I might add:
That you are the customer; the reason they are in business.

[Richard III]

4. And then there's the problem of becoming the target of random fruits and nuts --- sometimes from the very same places we consider most forward-thinking. For an an extreme example of this kind of hate, go to:

http://grevstad.org/cgi-bin/atrium.pl

and follow the link in the recent thread called "Is this for real? *LINK*".

What gets me is they've included links like "skirt wearing man flashes police" in the same category as links to VERY respectable boards like "X Marks the Scot", and listed it all as "Warning: The following links are not safe for viewing while at work or for viewing by anyone under the age of 21." Thankfully, these morons did not find our web site.

Here is the message in question, and this is the site that the original poster, Zorba, referred to. Zorba asks: Are they "for real"? It might seem obvious from the site that it must be a spoof, but, then, I'm not one for drawing conclusions hastily, and, at first, did not eagerly assume that the web site is a spoof; after all, there really are nutters such as the people in the Westboro Baptist Church. What is more, Brownback is a real person, and he seeks the Republican party's nomination as US presidential candidate.

On the other hand, there is evidence on Baptists For Brownback's web site that indicates that it is, after all, a spoof. Hm. Not a good idea for spoofers to involve Brownback in their spoofing.

Its home page has a "legal statement" that begins "By visiting this entertaining Godly site...". It looks decidedly un-entertaining to me.

Another clue that it might be a spoof is that the text on the home page is signed "Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett". Her surname strikes me as unusual, but, even if a surname is unusual, if it is genuine, one might expect several people bearing it to have presence on the web. A quick google gives the impression that Gaines-Crocketts are as rare as Garridebs: precisely one has presence on the web, and it is her. Moreover, she, along with many others including one Ms. Anne Thrope, is on the staff of the Ladies of Landover, which is on another spoof web site, that of the Landover Baptist Church.

I only hope that, if people are inclined to such views, and they chance upon web sites like this, these web sites don't encourage these views!

Probably these very same people were also instrumental in shutting down a maker of men's skirts near Seattle. They simply harassed him on-line until it was easier for him to shut it all down and move on.

Most regrettable.

But overall --- guys who like to wear skirts are not really an oppressed group

We might be oppressed less than some people are, but that is not to deny that we are oppressed to some extent because of the way we choose to dress. I certainly am, and it seems, from what I read on this forum, that some others have it worse.