skirtcafe.org

Offkilter69 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:14 pm I get really get annoyed by the sexism voiced by women about men wearing skirts. Double standards abound in regard to this. The “rules” for men are much more confining for men than women. Women gaining the acceptance of wearing pants didn’t make them masculine. The same principle should apply to men wearing skirts. The difference is that most women wanted to be able to wear pants if they chose to do so, while most men either do not want to wear skirts, are afraid to wear skirts, or do not know they would like wearing skirts. Until that stigma is gone, changing social acceptance of MIS will remain an uphill climb. We’re the slow difference makers, whether it’s incorporating kilts (me) or skirts (wannabe me) into our everyday attire and going about our lives.

Generally, the only women who have objected to my skirts have been related to me. Most of the rest have been positively encouraging.
You are correct that women "wanted" to wear trousers, but they also acted on that wish.
In our case, if we don't act decisively now, the change will happen sometime after the devil goes ice-skating.
If you honestly believe that clothes don't have gender, then surely the so called stigma should be irrelevant.
Sadly too, if you stick to the "Kilt" as a masculine/manskirt compromise you are also compounding the gendering of clothes.
Go for the freedom that the women took, wear what, where and whenever you wish, no ifs and no buts.
Slow maybe, but making the difference for yourself is the only place to start.
Steve.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:01 pm Generally, the only women who have objected to my skirts have been related to me. Most of the rest have been positively encouraging.

Strange isn't it? The people who we (kind of) expect to love/encourage us instead find great fault. My personal belief? I think they are embarrassed by us, and instead of saying that directly, they find other reasons. And if they do tell us they are embarrassed, what can we do to change their emotions or build their confidence?

Coder wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:30 pmStrange isn't it? The people who we (kind of) expect to love/encourage us instead find great fault. My personal belief? I think they are embarrassed by us, and instead of saying that directly, they find other reasons. And if they do tell us they are embarrassed, what can we do to change their emotions or build their confidence?

Sadly, there is very little that we can do to change that mindset: the change has to come from within. And that's all the more reason why we should provide as compelling an image as possible.

It's also worth mentioning that, "At the end of the day the clothes come off." Try that with tattoos/piercings/&c.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:01 pm

Offkilter69 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:14 pm I get really get annoyed by the sexism voiced by women about men wearing skirts. Double standards abound in regard to this. The “rules” for men are much more confining for men than women. Women gaining the acceptance of wearing pants didn’t make them masculine. The same principle should apply to men wearing skirts. The difference is that most women wanted to be able to wear pants if they chose to do so, while most men either do not want to wear skirts, are afraid to wear skirts, or do not know they would like wearing skirts. Until that stigma is gone, changing social acceptance of MIS will remain an uphill climb. We’re the slow difference makers, whether it’s incorporating kilts (me) or skirts (wannabe me) into our everyday attire and going about our lives.

Generally, the only women who have objected to my skirts have been related to me. Most of the rest have been positively encouraging.
You are correct that women "wanted" to wear trousers, but they also acted on that wish.
In our case, if we don't act decisively now, the change will happen sometime after the devil goes ice-skating.
If you honestly believe that clothes don't have gender, then surely the so called stigma should be irrelevant.
Sadly too, if you stick to the "Kilt" as a masculine/manskirt compromise you are also compounding the gendering of clothes.
Go for the freedom that the women took, wear what, where and whenever you wish, no ifs and no buts.
Slow maybe, but making the difference for yourself is the only place to start.
Steve.

Having the women who are important in your life object to your skirt wearing is a difficult issue to reconcile. Personally, I am taking it slow- first with active kilt wearing, hoping that it breaks the ice with actual skirts. My SO and teenage daughters have accepted my “alternative” style, but don’t particularly like it- especially my daughters. My SO has very strong opinions about what males should wear, so her overall acceptance of my kilt wearing has been a pleasant surprise.

I do not agree that kilts compromise the cessation of gendering of clothes. Kilts are a type of skirt by definition. I wear utility kilts most of the time, which according to many traditional kilt wearers, ARE just heavy skirts.

We all have our own timelines and comfort levels. Since I rarely see a guy other than myself wearing a kilt as everyday attire, let alone a skirt, any dude wearing a type of non-bifurcated bottom in public is helping to breakdown asinine fashion and social rules.

Coder wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:36 am Here’s a slightly more positive article, and optimistic about MIS in general:

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/fashion/a ... -dior-2023

Until you start seeing “random” guys showing up to events, parties, and just on the street in skirts, I will just file this under celebrity attention-seeking, although that isn’t a nice way to frame it.

The concern I have with labeling this “celebrity attention-seeking” is I suspect that implies they want attention to advance their career. Is wearing a skirt as a man then a positive thing for male celebrities? Or do we file this under “any press is good press?”

Seems wearing a skirt as a male could be a negative thing. “Can’t be a macho stud Hollywood hunk” if your masculinity has been questioned by your skirt. If skirt wearing is seen as that.

Or are the times changing?

PS: you’re a “random guy” who showed up to an event. Keep up the good work

Offkilter69 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:20 am
I do not agree that kilts compromise the cessation of gendering of clothes. Kilts are a type of skirt by definition. I wear utility kilts most of the time, which according to many traditional kilt wearers, ARE just heavy skirts.

We all have our own timelines and comfort levels. Since I rarely see a guy other than myself wearing a kilt as everyday attire, let alone a skirt, any dude wearing a type of non-bifurcated bottom in public is helping to breakdown asinine fashion and social rules.

I’m in total agreement with this. If you consider transitive law (A=B and B=C then A=C), it’s a means to an end. If they accept you wearing a kilt and a kilt is a skirt then they will ultimately accept you wearing a skirt.

And when they object, asking what’s the difference between a kilt and a skirt will be telling. When the answer to your questions are “because it is,” you know they have no answer

Coder wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:00 pm
I think I give the guys at the UPS store something to talk about, and possibly brighten their lunch where they speculate on when "that skirted guy" will drop something off.

I’m sure you do and I doubt it’s just mirth. I get a sports massage once a month. The therapist I always go to has mentioned they like my kilt. Notices when I don’t wear one. Has become something I always do.

There are two guys at the front who check me in. Both with painted nails. Yes, that’s profiling but it’s also just an observation. They haven’t said anything but they know my name and check me in as I’m coming through the door cause they’ve seen me walking to the store through the front glass windows. I thought it could be cause I’ve been going awhile. And it maybe. But it feels different when I check in to when I see and hear them checking others in and out. Could just be in my brain or wishful thinking but it does set you apart

ScotL wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:19 am The concern I have with labeling this “celebrity attention-seeking” is I suspect that implies they want attention to advance their career. Is wearing a skirt as a man then a positive thing for male celebrities? Or do we file this under “any press is good press?”

Not to be cynical - because any of these celebrities could genuinely experimenting with fashion - but I do think it's mostly “any press is good press?”. They know it won't be bad press, and we are talking about him - I didn't even know who he was. But as other articles discuss, he's been a bit more adventurous before, so perhaps this as all his idea.

And that's not to say it matters either which way. Fashion/style doesn't belong to any one group - whether you wear skirts because you want, or because it boosts your popularity, but obviously the latter reason seems vapid.

Coder wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:00 am

ScotL wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:19 am The concern I have with labeling this “celebrity attention-seeking” is I suspect that implies they want attention to advance their career. Is wearing a skirt as a man then a positive thing for male celebrities? Or do we file this under “any press is good press?”

Not to be cynical - because any of these celebrities could genuinely experimenting with fashion - but I do think it's mostly “any press is good press?”. They know it won't be bad press, and we are talking about him - I didn't even know who he was. But as other articles discuss, he's been a bit more adventurous before, so perhaps this as all his idea.

And that's not to say it matters either which way. Fashion/style doesn't belong to any one group - whether you wear skirts because you want, or because it boosts your popularity, but obviously the latter reason seems vapid.

Probably a little of both. Patterson was just Batman. I’m no movie expert and rarely actually see one but even I know him. He seems to be at the top of his craft currently. Doesn’t seem like someone who needs attention.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:43 pm The number of male celebrities donning skirts for column inches versus the number of men like us, I wonder?

How's your ratio of colomn inches per skirted hour coming on, Stevie? You'll have to go some to catch up on Messrs Pattinson, Pitt, Beckham, etc!

Any man showing the nerve to head out in a skirt needs to be applauded.
However he also needs to put a mirror by the front door and as he passes said mirror say to himself "hang on". Then turn around and rethink the outfit.
It looks to me like there are some pop socks going on with the boots. Loose the pop sock and boots. Dms and leather jacket over a crisp shirt would go well to balance the skirt sparkles

Barleymower wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:32 pm However he also needs to put a mirror by the front door and as he passes said mirror say to himself "hang on".

OMG - this happened to me the other week. I was headed out, and did a quick side check in the mirror (something I never do). I had left my rear zipper unzipped, but buttoned. I was horrified and not sure if I would have even noticed it.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:32 pm It looks to me like there are some pop socks going on with the boots. Loose the pop sock and boots. Dms and leather jacket over a crisp shirt would go well to balance the skirt sparkles

The boots were too short/tall - the created a weird gap between his boots and skirt, based on current trends should ideally have been shorter or up to his knees. And yeah, the socks were a bit weird.

Pop socks are a wierd knee high tight , I think created to be worn with trousers or a long skirt to degate the need for socks with shoes. Fair enough. To show them off like long socks is awful!

Reminds me it is also time to put a full length mirror in the downstairs front room so we can see our true selves. Eek!

FLbreezy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:06 pm

rode_kater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:36 am

Coder wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:36 am Until you start seeing “random” guys showing up to events, parties, and just on the street in skirts, I will just file this under celebrity attention-seeking, although that isn’t a nice way to frame it.

Would you consider yourself a "random guy showing up to an event in a skirt"?

We're making the difference now, even if we don't feel it.

Chaos theory says we might be the butterflies causing a future skirt tornado.

Applying the laws of market research to our case, the tipping point at which a trend becomes general fashion is about 10-15 percent of "random" guys walking around in skirts.

I see pleats only on one side. Is the skirt wrapped like a kilt?
Is that why the piece is called a kilt?
Strictly speaking, however, a kilt is also a skirt just like a wrapped sarong or lavalava.
Any legwear that is not bifurcated like pants is a skirt, right?