skirtcafe.org

Stevie D wrote:Watch it on the Beeb here: [...]

Now that was a nicely done story! Thanks for the pointer!

Any one that followed my trail this morning will see I was late to the line on complimenting on this story. Sorry about that. Great find to all that saw it somewhere else and brought it to the attention of us on the skirt sites.

It's true that the world didn't end because a male went against the 'norm' in society. Wonderful to see. It was easy for me to be different since I've always had a slight problem with authority. I find it interesting that I've been on both sides of authority and wonder if that's one of the reasons why I didn't become a 'presidential candidate'.....

and another thin...................... aw shut up, tom. Nuff said,

Tom

Good story -- and good lad, especially.
I'd like to know (though I can guess the answer) how many of his friends followed his example.
Clearly, the authorities assumed that the only possible summer alternative for a male was shorts, and therefore made no mention of skirts for the lads in the rules. If none of the other boys in the school considers skirts a suitable alternative, then we shall know that the younger generation is no more open-minded than the previous one.
Martin

couyalair wrote:Clearly, the authorities assumed that the only possible summer alternative for a male was shorts

I disagree. The head is on record as stating that the uniform policy (pdf) is deliberately gender-neutral, and intentionally left open the possibility of the boys wearing skirts so as not to be open to the accusation of sexism. The uniform policy excludes shorts on anyone, and allows knee-length skirts on anyone.

I think that it would be a defensible position for the school to state that the school is not discriminating against the boys in denying them access to cooler clothing, but that societal pressure is preventing the boys from taking advantage of the cooler options that are allowed within the rules.

That's just me, of course. It could equally be argued that the school only provides socially-acceptable cooler options to the girls.

Personally, I think that both arguments have merit. On one hand, I applaud the school for its truly gender-neutral uniform policy, but excluding shorts (from experience) can make the summer months very uncomfortable indeed for those trouser-bound either by policy or by convention.


Paul.

ethelthefrog wrote: ... the uniform policy is deliberately gender-neutral, and intentionally left open the possibility of the boys wearing skirts so as not to be open to the accusation of sexism.

So the legal requirements of non-discrimination (gender-neutrality) are making no difference whatsoever to the way society functions.

We are not allowed to say or write anything racist, sexist,etc, but we can go on being racist, sexist etc deep down in our hearts.
Everything nazi is outlawed in Germany, but that does not stop nazi feelings from continuing.
Everything racist is illegal in much of the western world, but we don't want our children to marry someone of a different colour.
I'm not sure what the laws say about sexism , but men and women continue to be treated differently are expected to act and dress differently.

I think unwritten laws will always be stronger than the written ones, so, while we are allowed to wear unbifurcated garments (for example), unwritten law says we should not. Alas! It is not easy to change deep-rooted thought systems (not a good term, as no-one actually consciously thinks at all).

Martin

couyalair wrote:Everything racist is illegal in much of the western world, but we don't want our children to marry someone of a different colour.

Really?

ethelthefrog wrote:It could equally be argued that the school only provides socially-acceptable cooler options to the girls.

I remember some years ago when my son, then aged 10, was doing country dancing on the Cathedral green in Wells. It was a hot day and he was expected to wear long trousers while all the girls wore skirts. My wife had a go at the teacher and got his sentence commuted to shorts.
Fast forward to last May day. There was maypole dancing in Wells market place. All the dancers were from the local primary schools, and all were girls except for one boy. He stood out because he wore grey shorts - all the girls wore coloured skirts. I thought how much better it visually it would have been if he'd also worn a coloured skirt.
I do wonder if schools and other institutions that claim to be gender-neutral and have equal dress codes, really hope that they won't be challenged and that the male species will conform to the unwritten trouser rule.
Charlie

Charlie, it's come to me that in the Western world, males are considered to be lesser beings and as such, MUST wear trousers/pants as a banner of their lesser-ness hence the freedom of females who may wear whatever they want wherever they please.

Since1982 wrote:Charlie, it's come to me that in the Western world, males are considered to be lesser beings and as such, MUST wear trousers/pants as a banner of their lesser-ness hence the freedom of females who may wear whatever they want wherever they please.

Skip,
Here we see eye to eye.

There are FAR more men transitioning to women than women transitioning to men.

John.

Since1982 wrote:Charlie, it's come to me that in the Western world, males are considered to be lesser beings and as such, MUST wear trousers/pants as a banner of their lesser-ness hence the freedom of females who may wear whatever they want wherever they please.

I'm confused now ... some say that females are inferior and if a man wears a skirt then he also becomes inferior

But you're right, Skip. Take TV adverts, the woman is always portrayed as wise and clever and having the upper hand, while the man is always the fool.

Charlie

Charlie wrote: I'm confused now ... some say that females are inferior and if a man wears a skirt then he also becomes inferior

But you're right, Skip. Take TV adverts, the woman is always portrayed as wise and clever and having the upper hand, while the man is always the fool.

Charlie

Male sheeple are really stupid in wearing the same old tired clothes, especially the coat and tie look for formal wear.

I saw some article of how men should wear suits for interviews, including ties because of "hard economic times". I sound like a stuck record, but I am really sick and tired of the mandatory coat and tie look men have to endure for formal wear. Very few women would want to become men and be stuck with the clothing restrictions.

So, maybe the first order of things might be to adopt alternative fashions in place of the coat and tie for formal wear while keeping pants. Then the skirt might come along, and finally dresses.

John

JohnH wrote:Male sheeple are really stupid in wearing the same old tired clothes, especially the coat and tie look for formal wear.

Hmmm. Is it just me, or is it rather pointless to try getting someone to change their way of thinking by first insulting their intelligence? It seems rather, well, counterproductive.

Yes, men's styles are stultifyingly dull, and have been for ages. This is seen more than anyplace else in the workplace, and that's more of an expression of wealth, power, and status than anything else. The alpha dogs at the top wear $1,000 suits because they can afford them when the betas -- nevermind everybody else -- can't. It's a way of visually marking territory. In short, unless one works in a no-dress-code company, a guy in a skirt likely will either be a short-timer, have some kind of "information" about somebody important, or otherwise hold the keys to the place *and* have large stones to boot. I work in a no dress-code company, at least based on what I see my fellow employees wearing.

Now, getting formal -- or at least semi-formal -- non-workplace styles to be a bit more original and colourful does seem to be a good starting-point for those who either don't like the uber-casual (where's an umlaut when one needs one!) look or don't want to cultivate it. This, I suspect, will start with some variant on the formal kilt and develop from there, probably to include other skirt types.

I don't see a big uptake on dresses because most dresses are designed -- by necessity -- with geometries that, in my opinion, just look daft on the male physique. Not that I haven't been pondering this, mind, because I have, and when I see a design I usually ask myself it it would either just work, or could be adapted to. The most problematic issues I see is neckline design followed closely by sleeve design.

However, to drag this tread back on topic, I applaud the lad's drive in this. If this just gets some folks to think -- young and old alike -- it'll not have been for naught.

crfriend wrote:(where's an umlaut when one needs one!)

(here you go: ü)

crfriend wrote:However, to drag this tread back on topic, I applaud the lad's drive in this. If this just gets some folks to think -- young and old alike -- it'll not have been for naught.

I wore my kilt all day on Sunday, which is a first for me in the great outdoors. One person I spoke to at church mentioned the lad in question (it's a local story and is still simmering a little here, much to my delight) and asked if he'd inspired me. The honest answer was "yes and no". He's having a bigger impact than he anticipated, I think, which can only be a good thing. He's opened the subject and has actually got people (in Cambridge, at least) thinking about males in skirts. Maybe he's not paving the way for a more general acceptance, but he's laid a couple of paving stones.

Paul.

ethelthefrog wrote:

crfriend wrote:(where's an umlaut when one needs one!)

(here you go: ü)

Thank you, kind sir.

I wore my kilt all day on Sunday, which is a first for me in the great outdoors.

Well done and congratulations

That wasn't so hard, now was it? Welcome to a wider world. It's always the first step that's the hardest, mostly because we make it so. It's the effect of "fear of the unknown"; we're not sure what'll happen so we quite naturally shy away from it, and when we find out that nothing untoward happens we chastise ourselves for not trying it earlier on.

One person I spoke to at church mentioned the lad in question (it's a local story and is still simmering a little here, much to my delight) and asked if he'd inspired me. The honest answer was "yes and no". He's having a bigger impact than he anticipated, I think, which can only be a good thing. He's opened the subject and has actually got people (in Cambridge, at least) thinking about males in skirts. Maybe he's not paving the way for a more general acceptance, but he's laid a couple of paving stones.

This can only be described as a good thing, and it's especially nice that the lad's actions have put others' minds to action.

crfriend wrote:Thank you, kind sir.

You're very welcome, distinguished sir.

crfriend wrote:That wasn't so hard, now was it?

I think the biggest journey was for my wife. I've been (theoretically, at least) happy to go skirted outdoors since this journey began for me, a year ago. I've been keeping it indoors out of deference to her feelings on the matter, and biding my time while she collects data. The more data she collects, the more sanguine she's become about the idea. I am hopeful that she'll be comfortable with me going skirted in public on a sub-geological timescale.

Of course, then there's the challenge of putting theory into practice.

Well, if a 12-year-old can do it, so can I. The only way this flag is going to be flown is if we fly it.