Votes Matter ... or Do They?

[moonshadow]

Okay, I don't have a problem with anyone here, moderator or not. Carl, you do a fine job running the site, and didn't mean to imply otherwise. I can't help but be a little annoyed when non-mods get after me and others for bending the rules, drifting threads, etc, then they turn around and go at it themselves. But just forget about it. I'll let it go.

Anyway, since we're bound and determined to talk politics, I'll throw this in here to put this somewhat back on topic...

We are all sheep, ruled by wolves, and owned by pigs. No, your vote doesn't matter.

[Fred in Skirts]

The moderators don't bust chops (save for each others' on occasion); we're more subtle than that. If somebody "needs a talking to" that'll happen by way of e-mail unless something truly egregious happened in which case we have been known to make an object lesson of it. Does anybody want my job?

I have your job on another forum and have had to be the bad guy more than once. So it is no easy task you have. Would I take it if offered ? Yes I would.

Fred

[Disaffected.citizen]

Okay, I don't have a problem with anyone here, moderator or not. Carl, you do a fine job running the site, and didn't mean to imply otherwise. I can't help but be a little annoyed when non-mods get after me and others for bending the rules, drifting threads, etc, then they turn around and go at it themselves. But just forget about it. I'll let it go.

Anyway, since we're bound and determined to talk politics, I'll throw this in here to put this somewhat back on topic...

We are all sheep, ruled by wolves, and owned by pigs. No, your vote doesn't matter.

I'll go on record as having absolutely no problem with anything you've written, Moon. I might not agree with it all, but I respect your opinion and am grateful for the depth and breadth of topics to which you contribute.

Usually, I try to avoid topics where they are in danger of overheating.

As regards politics, it's difficult to avoid them simply because most opinions have some political bearing. I previously said that a man simply wearing a skirt is a political statement in itself, and stand by that comment. When we discuss the price of groceries, the transport infrastructure, equality and rights, language and interpretation, etc., we are already into the realm of politics; so it is difficult to avoid the subject altogether.

The great thing here is the level of decorum exhibited in the exchanges; it is easy to tell from posts that (say) Oldsalt1 and Pdxpioneer (there are others, too, but you guys are are the first to spring to mind as examples) on opposite sides of the political spectrum (and I believe they're both accountants!), yet they have managed their respective opinions (on the open forum) without resorting to insults (of each other); Hillary and Donald are fair game to all at present, as were the Stay vs the Brexiter campaigners earlier in the year.

I have learnt much from the Cafe patronage about many topics (religion, politics, engineering, etc) that wouldn't have come about were it not for the discretion exercised by the mods and the general patrons in the discussions and exchanges. As I've said before, the level of civility here is remarkably good; much better than many sites I've visited.

[Disaffected.citizen]

And, whilst on the subject of politics, I happened upon the politics at the creation of man, here.

[moonshadow]

I appreciate it D.A.

[moonshadow]

And, whilst on the subject of politics, I happened upon the politics at the creation of man, here.

HA! - That was pretty good!

[Kirbstone]

Well, DC, That joke only gets a Man to 65 years. We have a dog currently in her 17th year and I am in my 75th ditto. I've jut watched HRH the Duke of Edinburgh, pushing 95, ramrod straight opening the World's first vertical cable car in Brighton.

I'm all for this longevity thing....

Tom

[Disaffected.citizen]

Well, DC, That joke only gets a Man to 65 years. We have a dog currently in her 17th year and I am in my 75th ditto. I've jut watched HRH the Duke of Edinburgh, pushing 95, ramrod straight opening the World's first vertical cable car in Brighton.

I'm all for this longevity thing....

Tom

At the dawn of creation, 65 was old; now it's just the beginning of the (long) end!

I have the good fortune of working alongside several active septuagenarians (one of whom rocks her minidresses); who put to shame a "manager" in his 20s. The business (a well known charity) seems to have no effective tool to properly performance manage paid staff

[Sinned]

DC that was good. Brought the tears to my eyes and so true. Gibber, gibber.

[Tor]

Every so often I go back and re-read, with a critical eye, the rules and evaluate whether there is reason enough to warrant changing them. ...f what's working continues to work, I am inclined to leave well enough alone. Having "room to dance", and to do so with a deft hand, is important in this regard, and if the rules are continually morphing around nobody really has much of a clue in what they're allowed to do -- and that's when things go really wrong.

No arguments here. Which is why I quickly gave up on all the additional or changed verbiage I thought of, and came down to nothing more than a formatting change to attempt to obliquely indicate that what really gets squashed flattest and fastest is violations of rule 1, or more specifically, the first part of it, while the boundaries of the remaining rules are much more grey. For that matter, some seem to state that a fuzzy grey line may not be crossed.

When we discuss the price of groceries, the transport infrastructure, equality and rights, language and interpretation, etc., we are already into the realm of politics...

Because the bloody politicians seem intent on sticking their nebs into everybody else's business.

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Hello Disaffected Citizen,

Thank you for the support. You are quite right both OldSalt1 & I are accountants, live on opposite coasts (though I grew up across Long Island Sound from him) and therefore have opposite opinions (That's as good an excuse as any.) but seem to have the same commitment everyone else on our forum has to maintaining civility so, as any number of members have observed, we can learn form one another.

I liked the creation of man story. It's a keeper.

Moonshadow, don't get disheartened, I was impressed early on by how many people responded to your threads. Those things (people responding) come and go as interests get piqued. I like, a lot, a lot of the things you say. When some of the things you said irritated me, I let you know, but it's always just one man's opinion, okay?

To be honest, I saw a T-shirt on line that said "I graduated from (my alma mater) so to save each other time, just assume I'm always right," and almost bought it ... to save mine and everyone else's time. Then I realized, I don't personally care for the T-shirt and skirt look, and usually wear dresses anyway, so never mind. That, and I have been wrong enough times in my years that I should stop kidding myself on that matter.

Right now a lot that's important has come to the surface that as a nation we need to talk about. Too bad the intercourse between the candidates has amounted to nothing more than mud-slinging with varying amounts of truth to carry it.

Call me a cock-eyed optimist, but I still believe in my country and in our system so I still believe our votes count. Not as much as we'd like and not in as nuanced a way as we'd like, but they count.

And sorry Tor, we do need a government and laws and enforcers of that law because in one realm or another we're all sheep living amongst wolves and yeah, all those pesky things we love to hate about government keep the wolves more or less in line. We keep getting more laws and regulations because our world keeps getting more complicated.

Carl and the other moderators, thank you for your flexibility and your hard work. This site has been a lifesaver for each of us in turn.

[crfriend]

I have the good fortune of working alongside several active septuagenarians (one of whom rocks her minidresses); who put to shame a "manager" in his 20s.

These are the sort of people around whom it is good to work and live. They're also the sorts who tend to live the longest; isolation and idleness kill.

[Kirbstone]

The average lifespan of the people who built New Grange and other similar passage tombs in Ireland 5-6000 years ago was 29 !!

DNA tests done on the bones of seven people found under a slab tomb in Co. Sligo, dated 5,800 years old showed that one individual was 59 years old.....an incredible age at the time.

They also swabbed the local schoolchildren and found that a significant proportion of them showed the same DNA features as those from the tomb, attesting to direct ancestry over the aeons of centuries.

Tom.

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

In my typical buzzkill fashion I would like to get us back on topic.

But first I'll digress a moment. My whole adult life people have consistently underestimated my age. I attribute it to the longevity genes I have inherited from both of my parents. My father died at 91 my mother is still rocking along at 101. My vital signs have consistently shown I have the potential and am well on my way to beating those numbers. It sure doesn't come from my lifestyle or diet so it has to be driven by genetics.

And yet, as Tom's tidbit shows, in one age people with the same genes have an average lifespan of only 29 years, in another 59 and now in the modern era probably the same 75 or so that we can all look forward to in modern, advanced societies so clearly the social environment matters as well.

Which brings me back to the original question; this afternoon as I watched CNN I was reminded just why this election and therefore each of our votes matter. We all know that it all starts at the top. Just as the president of almost any sized company, let alone a large one, can't control every single action of every single employee, the head person sets the tone, ethics and ethos that drives nearly every action. So the question becomes, what kind of country do you want? Our daily work experience tells us that beyond the economic forces affecting every individual, every company and the country as a whole, the character and personality at the helm creates the environment.

Do you want the US to be a blustering, erratic, impulsive bully that is driven by short-term self-interest? Or do we want the most powerful nation in history to be a thoughtful, disciplined, driven nation that is dedicated to the well-being of all individuals, especially our children?

To say your vote doesn't count shows a naivete about how our system actually works. Yes, money buys access if not influence, but at the end of the day, dollars don't vote, people do. Look at how far Bernie Sanders got on average donations of $29 per donor. When a candidate loses by a landslide, whether it is by electoral or popular vote, that's looked at as a repudiation of the ideas that candidate stood for. The bigger the gap in the popular vote, the bigger, the stronger the message from the people, the more attention is paid. So no matter whether you are voting with or against the majority in your state, whether your state goes one way or the other, your voice is taken into account in the corridors and cloakrooms of power. That's how a representative democracy works.

Clearly, all of us, including those of you on the other sides of the two ponds that used to insulate the USA, have strong ideas on the kind of America we want standing astride the world and the kind of society we want to live in. Fellow US citizens, please summon your values and use them to guide you on the kind of person you want leading this country and then VOTE!

And be grateful that's the most profound thing our country is asking of most of us.

[Darryl]

Plan to Vote.

Most assuredly.

However. ANYTHING is better than career "establishment" politicians and the status quo that has gotten us to this point.