Dresses

[Sarongman]

I own four "dresses", two are sleeveless denim jumper style, one with collar, one without, and two overall dresses. All these items are, subjectively, masculine in style and the two jumpers are reminiscent of ecclesiastical garb. The two overall dresses, one a light khaki and the other a black denim, are less dressy and could be utilised as day wear at a pinch but, it is my opinion that they are more going out for dinner and/or the theatre. In North Africa/Arabia the men wear dresses, (You would be extremely hard put to find a Saudi man in a business suit!) these are called Galabbiyas, Thobes and other names. Look up Shukr for these men's dresses. I think the whole idea of our wearing dresses in public has to be thought through very carefully if we are not to undo the gradual acceptace we have already won with skirts.

[SkirtDude]

Deleted.

[AMM]

My problem with dresses is that if they fit me in the paunch they are so gigantic around the waist & hips that I feel like I am wearing a maternity dress.

That's the problem with men wearing dresses (and skirts) made for women.

Off-the-rack women's clothes are made to fit generic "women," so if, like most men (and a fair number of women), you don't have a "generic woman's" shape, you're not going to find off-the-rack women's clothes that fit you, let alone look good on you.

Consider the fact that women's dresses have a single size number, whereas men's shirts and trousers, which aren't as "fitted", require at least 2. I came up with a minimum of six measurements you'd need to make a dress fit properly.

I find that even women's skirts, which don't really have to fit anywhere but in the waist, don't fit me properly. That's why I've gone over to making my own. I've even made a dress or two (though I don't wear them "out and about"), and even my first attempts fitted me better than anything I've ever bought.

[Peter v]

My problem with dresses is that if they fit me in the paunch they are so gigantic around the waist & hips that I feel like I am wearing a maternity dress.

That's the problem with men wearing dresses (and skirts) made for women.

Off-the-rack women's clothes are made to fit generic "women," so if, like most men (and a fair number of women), you don't have a "generic woman's" shape, you're not going to find off-the-rack women's clothes that fit you, let alone look good on you.

Consider the fact that women's dresses have a single size number, whereas men's shirts and trousers, which aren't as "fitted", require at least 2. I came up with a minimum of six measurements you'd need to make a dress fit properly.

I find that even women's skirts, which don't really have to fit anywhere but in the waist, don't fit me properly. That's why I've gone over to making my own. I've even made a dress or two (though I don't wear them "out and about"), and even my first attempts fitted me better than anything I've ever bought.

Again the truth about getting well dressed has been reported. No person in the world is a confection person. Or there may be one person that is precicely the same as the measurements chosen to make any certain garment. All the rest have to do with plusses and minuses, accepting a bit tight here, a bit loose there. If you vary only minimaly to the chosen sizing of confection clothing, be it pants, dresses, blouses, skirts etc whatever, then you will have to accept that the confection clothing you wish to buy does not fit as you would wish. Both men and women alike have the same problem. As we know, some men may fit perfectly in women's clothing where women may fit perfectly in men's. And of course vise versa. With that in mind, then when clothing "fits you like a glove" it is "made for you" whether it was made with a male or female label. What others find of your choice is irrelevant.

For those of us who wish to wear alternative "men's"... clothing and have a "confection " build.... then it will be very easy to find whatever they seek, in both men's and women's wear. The rest of us, wel it is as said, an adventure to find that piece of clothing we like and also fits.

Luckily there is much "forgiving" clothing, which is either elastic or not precisely tailored to the body. Often dresses are forgiving, jet others will be very specifically tailored for the ideal model woman and thus not be suitable for male consumption, the dress not the woman..

Just do your best to find that garment where you are comfortable in, and go for it.

[shropshire steve]

Dresses seem like a nice idea but I had always thought they were a step too far, as well as which, as mentioned by others, the sizing of off the peg dresses is usually wrong for men. However, I then saw this denim dress in a sale in a charity shop (you know we are in a recession when a charity shop has a sale!) for 50p and thought it was worth a try. Being sleeveless the fitting of the shoulders is not such a problem and overall it fitted better than i thought it would. It is certainly very nice the way it hangs from your shoulders rather than with everything at your waist as with skirts and trousers.

Whilst it is great to wear I think it might take a summer heatwave before I am tempted to go out and about in it. The links below should take you to a couple of pictures of the dress.

http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/ ... opost1.jpg

http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/ ... opost2.jpg

[Since1982]

That's different, Steve, that's what's called a Jumper Dress in the United States. Opening and closing all those buttons must get to be a pain tho.. unless they're just decorative.

[JRMILLER]

Roman men managed to pull off a good look with what people would probably call a "dress" these days. I think they called it a tunic which was a long shirt that hung to their knees. Then they would apply a belt. When in uniform, they added a leather vest and leather skirt. I am not sure the "names of this stuff, but have a look at this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _70_aC.jpg.

I would like to see a modern version of clothing for men equally masculine (oh, there's that word) in appearance developed rather than trying to "get satisfaction" on the woman's side of the aisle!

[Since1982]

I would like to see a modern version of clothing for men equally masculine (oh, there's that word)

Its a good word. I'd personally rather see it than "I would like to see a modern version of clothing for men equally feminine"...(oh, there's that word)

[crfriend]

["Masculine" is] a good word. I'd personally rather see it than "I would like to see a modern version of clothing for men equally feminine"...(oh, there's that word)

Given that it seems that both terms now seem to be "off the table", as it were, I'm half tempted (more so, actually) to channel Marty Feldman in Young Frankenstein in commenting, "He said a dirty word!" (Think the "charades scene" that culminates in Gene Wilder going upstairs to meet the local constable whilst his collar is askew and stating, "We've got to look normal!")

What's the point, really? Since it's rather apparent that the notions of the two cannot be nailled down (ever tried nailling Jell-O to a wall?) we might as well be arguing how many angels (or devils) can dance on the head of a pin. I would like to put forward the concept that perhaps it might be more appropriate to discuss how a particular outfit (He said a dirty word!) works in terms of how we wish to project it. How does it fit our own particular body? What message, if any, are we trying to send with it? Might it possibly work on other men (with, likely, different body types)? Maybe in this manner we might be able to overcome the externally-imposed -- and all too often arbitrary -- notions of what's "masculine" or "feminine".

[JRMILLER]

It's interesting that history provides many examples of M.U.G.s throughout the centuries. We have had a "break" in the Western world for the past couple of centuries of M.U.G. design for lack of a better word. We could, as a group, take a historical look at what has preceded and start discussing changes to update these items to the current century. I am not suggesting that we come up with a "single" design that will work for everyone, rather, begin a collection of ideas, document them here as a starting point and grow it. Why wait for the rest of the world to come up with this "for us", what can we accomplish here?

[Grok]

I recall a post to X-marks awhile back....a (western) woman advocating kimonos.

I wonder...is there a gap in our Western wardrobes? For both genders? I think that woman had a good idea. Not the kimono, specifically, but some kind of robe-like or gown-like garment. It is easy to imagine wearing something like that around the house.

[Charlie]

I wonder...is there a gap in our Western wardrobes?

A great big gaping hole - certainly for men. The British Met Office are forecasting a hot summer this year (yippee). This means women in floaty frocks and sandals, and men in ... ummm .... trousers, complaining about how hot they are.
I found one of my wife's old dresses. I tried it on. It's just above the knee and buttons down the front, and is so comfortable and cool. It's a little tight so I won't be wearing it, but the great thing is that it hangs from the shoulders, with no waistband. The closest thing I have to it is an Egyptian gallabayeh. There is no western men's equivalent to the dress (that I know of, please correct me and tell me where to get one!), and I think we are the poorer for it.

Charlie

[Sarongman]

My slow, ancient mind just remembered the 60s and early 70s when hippy men wore kaftans. Now, I believe, a kaftan is a dress, admittedly loose and shapeless but--- a DRESS!

[Since1982]

Now, I believe, a kaftan is a dress, admittedly loose and shapeless but--- a DRESS!

Just don't tell any Muslim men that..(IF you wish to live). They might want to show you their brand new Automatic Kalishnikov 47 that they paid $50.00 for in hundreds of streetside factories in Pakistan.

[Grok]

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