And a lot of women call pantyhose torture devices.

[Pythos]

Be warned, this is borderline cross dressing, but please read, the events are interesting.

So yesterday evening I went out with my now Ex- room mate, to a goth outing. We decided to do some gender bending, and she asked I bring along the Chenongsam. So I packed said, a pair of hose, and my boots. When I got to the apartment, she and her husband were getting ready. He put near no effort into his ouftit, and looked awful. But this was all for fun anyway. She dressed as "male" as she could, but still looked feminine (which was fine). After chatting, she held up a corsette had intended for her hubby to wear, but he was too wide shall we say. She asked if I would be daring enough to try it. My response was "eh, what the hell, I have wondered how I would look in this gown with hips.

Wow, I had no idea what I was getting into. I knew I was in for something when she said "ok, go ahead and put on your hose, but not the dress yet." Then the line that made me do a double take "be sure your bladder is empty, you may not be able to get access once you are in this". So I followed her instructions, went into the bathroom, took off my boots and leggings, got into my hose after using the facilities. I came out in just the hose, and my dressing slip. She then asked me to face away from her, after which she started putting on the corset. It was black, with clasps at the front already fastened. She said "oh, you are gonna need to lose the slip, you may not be able to take it off". So I did so. As I stood there wearing nothing but hose and the loose corset I felt VERY naked. she had pulled the laces out of the back, which would be installed while I held the corset up against me. When she was done lacing, I did not think the thing was all that bad, rather snug and in a way comfy. I noticed that the lower forward portion of the garment stuck out a bit, and that the top of my hose were pretty much covered over, hence the reason for the "facility" warning. I mentioned how the front part wasn't quite snug to which she said "oh it won't when this thing is done right" she then began pulling on the laces, and the thing got a little tighter all around my midsection. She told me to say when it got really uncomfortable. REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE?! For the next 10 minutes she worked on the laces and my midsection got really pulled in, finally I said, that it was getting a bit uncomfortable. She said "ok" and pulled a bit more and tied the laces. She stood back and was all "oh my god, you now have curves". The garment was quite possibly the tightest thing I had ever worn. I went to the mirror and saw myself wearing just a pair of off black sheer to waist hose, and this contraption...which made my midsection several times smaller than normal, resulting in my having some nice hips, and upper body shape. Since we were just gender bending I did not wear falsies, or any other things to make me look feminine, except black lipstick and eyeliner (typical goth). I was happy of her earlier warning cause, there was no way I could take down the hose for biological breaks, the waistband was deep under the corset under which I couldn't even get a finger under. I was shocked at how my body looked. Mobility was greatly reduced by this thing though. Breathing? I could, but the corset made its presence known every breath.

I then went to put on the gown, I noticed that it was a bit more difficult to pull the dress over my "hips", and when I got to the stage of closing the side zipper, I needed my friend's help with doing this. The dress had been made to fit me in my regular shape, not with an hour glass figure. When the zipper got closed, and the fasteners of the chest secured I was in...and would not be out for a while. My form was amazing in the dress, my rear looked incredible, and the dress followed every curve.

We then went to our destination. The experience was fun, but a bit painfull. The dress felt great, like the last time I wore it outside, but the corsette added something I did not have my last time out in the gown. I felt a bit of a sway as I walked. The party was fun, several guys looked ok, but most put no effort and looked awful. I find this to be typical now a days. Some of the ladies there said they liked how my quite androgynous look looked. I lasted probably three hours when I finally said to my friend "Ok time to go". The two were also done for the night. Dancing in the outfit was quite something, I found I moved quite differently as I danced with some others. My waist was quite limited, which caused me to use my lower body more.

When we got back to the apartment, I opened up the gown's snaps, and had the zipper opened. When she untied the corsette the feeling was weird to say the least, I also exhaled a huge "ahhhh, I can take a complete breath". After that I went to the facilities, took off the dress, put on a t-shirt and slip, and left on those things that many women say are "medieval torture devices", other wise know as hose. I hung out with my friends for little bit, put on my leggings and boots, grabbed my stuff and went home.

Women these days should be glad that the corset is just a thing of the past, or a piece of costume for fancy dress cause pantyhose have nothing on these things. My midsection had some red welts all about it where the boning as my friend called it was pressed against me under some fair pressure. I can say I tried one, and would wear a male version if it became the fashion again (yes men once wore them too), but only to look really trim. But if the women that complain about hose want something to complain about, wear a corset. Wow.

[Sasquatch]

Sounds like a novel and fun experience for an evening. They would have to make a steel-belted radial version for me!
Sasq

[ChrisM]

Thanks so much for the story Pythos!

I have often wondered about a corset but have never had the opportunity. I really appreciated you detailed discussion - I was totally there with you!

All the best to you,

Chris

[crfriend]

I have often wondered about a corset but have never had the opportunity.

It turns out that corsets are made for guys, which would be preferable than wearing one made for women -- especially if the thing is heavily-boned. The sexes are built differently after all. They're also nothing new; they've been around for at least a couple of hundred years. It's just that most men -- even those who may wear one -- tend not to talk about it much.

There was a chap who used to post here (Brother Tailor, I believe) who wears one and swears by it; it helps his back, if I recall correctly. You don't suppose those heavy elastic garments that folks who work lifting heavy things wear might be a modern adaptation?

As far as pantyhose/tights being considered "torture devices" goes, I suspect that may be part of the compulsion problem that women had to deal with for so many years. I wear such garments when I want to achieve a certain look or level of polish, and I actually find them in many instances quite comfortable. Yes, they can get hot, but so can a man's jacket!

[Stevie D]

It turns out that corsets are made for guys, which would be preferable than wearing one made for women -- especially if the thing is heavily-boned. The sexes are built differently after all. They're also nothing new; they've been around for at least a couple of hundred years. It's just that most men -- even those who may wear one -- tend not to talk about it much.......

Mens' corsets are here:
http://www.axfords.co.uk/mens.html

[Since1982]

Then the line that made me do a double take "be sure your bladder is empty, you may not be able to get access once you are in this". So I followed her instructions, went into the bathroom, took off my boots and leggings, got into my hose after using the facilities. I came out in just the hose, tucked (I had prior experience of this procedure from my Rocky Horror days) and my dressing slip.

I personally never thought the idea of "fashion freedom" for men was the ability to dress like a woman. OR vice versa. Certain clothes "fit" the female form better and again vice versa.

I thought fashion freedom was the right to wear whatever you wanted to as long as it looked good on you and didn't display any untoward parts of your body to the world. For men, I thought that was anything that kept men looking like men. Not pretend women. We had a poster describing dressing in one of the posts and said he was "tucking". As far as I know, "tucking" is making your crotch look like a female crotch. Is that really fashion freedom? Or changing the look of the male crotch and making yourself look like a "pretend woman"???

[crfriend]

[...] I thought fashion freedom was the right to wear whatever you wanted to as long as it looked good on you and didn't display any untoward parts of your body to the world. For men, I thought that was anything that kept men looking like men. Not pretend women. We had a poster describing dressing in one of the posts and said he was "tucking".

[Mod hat on]

The OP (original poster) was referring to an experience he had recently, and, put bluntly, either stepped over the line completely into crossdressing or came vanishingly close to it. I'm not going to label the post "out of order" or "off topic" yet simply because he was referring to an experiment, not a lifestyle.

Experimentation is a good thing -- it's one of the ways we learn things -- and relating the results of the experiences gained from said experiments is usually a good thing as well. In this case, the experiment was a bit "extreme" in the context of where the general SkirtCafe community stands, but that does not necessarily invalidate it; I sincerely doubt that the OP would want to dress like that every day.

I will admit some unease at the graphic explanations of "positioning", but understand that sometimes -- in extreme cases -- it may need doing, but it's not an everyday thing for most of the community here (I suspect), and certainly represents an "edge case" well off the centerline. Please be careful with such references going forward.

[Pythos]

The post where I was talking about the corset began with "this post is about borderline crossdressing". I clearly stated this was a gender bending event. Goths are known to do that. I was taking on a very androgynous appearance.

I have stated clearly that I do not want to cross dress, nor live as a woman, I find the fact that men feel the need to do this to express their true self is bogus. I was making the point that there are things far more "torturous" than pantyhose, and some people who complain about such should try these things, such as corsets. I also posted this in the OFF TOPIC section.

Seeing that the post before CF friends was someone on my ignore list, I would say somebody once again did not read the OP thoroughly. I would also like to know why my post has been brought into a discussion from ANOTHER member about fashion rules being instituted on us seeking the freedom to wear what we want.

[Bob]

I made a decision to let this one stay. Why:

1. Corsets are no more crossdressing than skirts. They are not fake body parts. Yes, they change the look of your presentation, but so does anything you wear.

2. The tucking thing was definitely borderline, those are details that in general I don't want to hear about on this board.

3. The original poster clearly stated he felt this was not in the mainstream of SkirtCafe, and he chose to post it in the "Off Topic" section. He has also made many other contributions to the Cafe. I don't want people --- especially long-standing members --- to feel that if you say something a little bit on the edge you will get shot down.

Someone responded to this thread, not here in the "Off Topic" section, but by hijacking another thread in the main section. I was upset by that because it seemed to be seeking to pick a fight. It was dragging an edgy topic out into the mainstream, maybe hoping that people would see how "out of place" it was and shoot it down. Sorry. This topic was originally posted in "Off Topic", so that's where it needs to stay.

[Milfmog]

Good call on this Bob and Carl and thanks for the explanation, which may help others to understand what is or is not acceptable here at the café. Pythos was pushing the boundaries a little, but provided plenty of forewarning for the squeamish.

I really can't imagine I'll ever try a corset however it was interesting to read his experiences and I'd hope everyone here is grown up enough not to get upset by a post like that. Thanks Pythos.

Have fun,


Ian.

[JRMILLER]

Well, it would be nice to have a waist, but I am trying crunches instead of corsets!

[Ray]

I'm pretty relaxed with the post made by Pythos. It was clearly signposted at the outset, and I found it very interesting. It's not going to get me into a corset, but that's because I don't think my frame would adjust as well to it as that of Pythos. I'm certainly not going to get upset about describing some of the practical issues of rearranging one's body parts. What are we going to do? Pretend we don't have appendages?

Good mod decision.

[Sasquatch]

I didn't find anything remotely offensive in the topic of corsets, particularly not as Pythos described his experience. In fact i'm surprised that the post was any sort of "issue" for either members or moderators. I thought it was the most interesting and enlightening post that has appeared on the Cafe in quite some time. The comments on arranging one's "equipment" seemed like a valid and relevant topic for a forum dealing with atypical fashion choices.
Sasq

[Brandy]

I didn't find anything remotely offensive in the topic of corsets, particularly not as Pythos described his experience. In fact i'm surprised that the post was any sort of "issue" for either members or moderators. I thought it was the most interesting and enlightening post that has appeared on the Cafe in quite some time. The comments on arranging one's "equipment" seemed like a valid and relevant topic for a forum dealing with atypical fashion choices.
Sasq

I agree with Sasquatch. I found the post interesting and nothing offensive. It is in Off Topic and Pythos is a long time contributer. A corset is not some thing I would care to try. His comments about arranging the "equipment" was entirely on topic with the discussion. As was mention " are we going to pretend "it" does not exist?"

-- Brandy

[crfriend]

[... The] comments about arranging the "equipment" was entirely on topic with the discussion. As was mention " are we going to pretend "it" does not exist?"

It's not that any of the adults here would get mortally offended by such discussion, but rather that we need to be aware that it's not just adults who are likely to be reading the forum here -- and that's what the moderators have to worry about, and that's what my commentary above was about. Would you really want your eight-year-old niece to be reading such things? One of the tenets about SkirtCafe is that it's "family friendly".

I suppose if we wanted to entertain the notion of "highly techincal" (to use a euphemism) discussions, we could set up a separate forum that would be visible only to those who explicitly sign up to see such discussions; the main question would then be, "How do we police such a thing?". If there's a perceived need for such a sub-forum, we can discuss it in the "Changes at the Cafe" forum.