Kilts vs. Skirt

[tommiez]

As some one who is quite new to wearing a Kilt I have a few questions. I wear a Black Kilt around uni and out and about from time to time. Which always turns heads. It gets refered to as a Skirt and even a dress. I find this annoying and ignorant. I find my self trying to defened what is in essance a Skirt as a peice of Menswear.

Do you think it is important to draw a line between Kilts and Skirts?

Do you think people will percive you as a Transvestite if your in an Unbifurcated garment?

Do you find you keep having to tell people your not in womens clothes?

Is it seen as taboo to wear Unbifurcated clothing in public?

Cheers

[AMM]

As some one who is quite new to wearing a Kilt I have a few questions. I wear a Black Kilt around uni and out and about from time to time. Which always turns heads. It gets refered to as a Skirt and even a dress. I find this annoying and ignorant. I find my self trying to defened what is in essance a Skirt as a peice of Menswear.

Do you think it is important to draw a line between Kilts and Skirts?

Do you think people will percive you as a Transvestite if your in an Unbifurcated garment?

Do you find you keep having to tell people your not in womens clothes?

Is it seen as taboo to wear Unbifurcated clothing in public?

Cheers

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you are looking for Authoritative Answers, whose answers will Solve Your Problems.

There aren't any. The answer to most of your questions is: yes for some people, no for others.

I'd also say that you're asking the wrong questions.

Whether you wear a kilt, a skirt, a pink tutu, or nothing at all, it comes down to the same thing: you're doing something visibly out of the ordinary. Some people will like it, some will hate it, many will just ignore it, and many will not really know how to react. Generally speaking, people do things that make you uncomfortable because what you are doing makes them feel uncomfortable.

If they call your kilt a dress, it's not because they're uninformed (even if they are.) It's because they're uncomfortable seeing a male body wearing something they're not used to seeing a male body wearing, and this is how they deal with their discomfort.

What you really need to do is to figure out strategies for managing other people's reactions, so they don't feel uncomfortable, or at least don't feel unnecessarily uncomfortable.

Ideally, they should end up feeling like you are a normal person who is doing something a little incomprehensible for comprehensible reasons.

This requires getting to know each of these people a little better and figuring out what approach will work best for each person.

The down side is that we can't help you very much, since we don't know these people.

The "up" side is that in the process you will learn a skill that will be useful in all areas of life (work, marriage, children, etc.)

-- AMM

[GerdG]

Do you think it is important to draw a line between Kilts and Skirts?

Yes, I have come to believe it is. A kilt is much easier to “defend” than is a skirt. A kilt is – even by ignorant people – regarded men’s clothing. A denim or corduroy skirt can look pretty masculine as well, but most skirts don’t.

Do you think people will percive you as a Transvestite if your in an Unbifurcated garment?

It depends to some extent of your kilt/skirt, but even more important might be what you combine with it. If anything but your unbifurcated garment is manly, very few people will think of you as a transvestite. But it certainly is a balance act.

Do you find you keep having to tell people your not in womens clothes?

No, if a masculine approach matters to you, you probably already dress in such a way that it shouldn’t be necessary. A black kilt, whether traditional or modern, hardy need explanations like that.

Is it seen as taboo to wear Unbifurcated clothing in public?

It still depends of the type of unbifurcated clothing. Wearing a kilt or an appropriate skirt in public is a non event. People just don’t care what you are wearing.

Cheers
GerdG

[tommiez]

It may be an unusual sight to see a guy in a Kilt but why does it make people feel uncomfortable. I'm no less mentaly stable than if I was in jeans. I don't change the way I dress the kilt just ends up with a tshirt, hoody and trainers. Does a garment have its own gender? Or does it take on the wearers?

Cheers
Tom

[Milfmog]

Do you think it is important to draw a line between Kilts and Skirts?

No. I don't believe what you wear is a huge issue to most people, but how you wear it sends a signal. If you look uncomfortable or furtive, people will think you are doing something wrong and will react to that. If you are comfortable and confident and behave exactly as you would in another outfit, people will tend to respond to you as they would if you were in the clothing they would have expected you to wear. I suspect that this is why some people have reported that when the first wore unbifurcated clothes in public they perceived lots of reaction from others but over time this disappears, they got used to it and stopped sending out the "uncertainty vibes" (for want of a better expression). That was certainly consistent with my own experiences.

Do you think people will perceive you as a Transvestite if your in an Unbifurcated garment?

Not unless you add wigs / makeup / jewellery etc designed to make you look female.

Do you find you keep having to tell people your not in women's clothes?

No one has ever asked if I'm wearing women's clothes. I have been asked if I'm deeply religious on two occasions (both times I was wearing a long black skirts though not the same one each time).

Some of my friends have accused me of wearing women's clothes in jest and I have simply accepted their friendly ribbing in good heart. Once the initial surprise wears off, the fact I'm in a skirt or kilt gets forgotten.

Recently, a friend was wearing a sarong "in my honour" when he arrived to give my wife a lift Although he'd never admitted it before, he told us that he often wears one when on holiday in warm countries. The fact that I had had no issues with wearing a skirt meant that he now felt able to "admit" to occasionally wearing a sarong, even though he took it off before arriving where he might meet anyone else he knows.

Is it seen as taboo to wear Unbifurcated clothing in public?

Not anywhere I've been though I would recommend a certain amount of care if visiting a religious site to avoid causing offence, but then that also applies when wearing trousers.

As AMM said, there are no definitive answers to your questions but those are my experiences. Hope they help.

Have fun,


Ian.

[skirttron]

A kilt is a type of skirt but calling it a kilt helps with acceptance, especially if you are married/with female partner. Folk probably do think I'm a transvestite but I couldn't care less and to tell you the truth they would not be entirely wrong. I'm old enough not to care if people think I'm in women's clothes. Skirt-wearing is only taboo amongst the insecure, uneducated, indoctrinated and bigoted. I wear kilts in very modern style out and about everywhere except work, for which I make an exception.

[Brandy]

All of the above I aggree with. For me the turning ponit arrived when I realised the only person I really need permission from was myself. Once I did that I settled down and " stopped sending out the "uncertainty vibes" ".

Instead of trying to find a string of responce I just answer " 'cause I want to " to the prennial question of - why? It's an answer that normally cuts off that whole line of questions and we can get on to something else.

Somrtimes I find I still need to give myself permission. This last summer my older brother mention that he must be getting use to my kilt as I just seemed 'normal'.

-- Brandy

[Since1982]

Do you think it is important to draw a line between Kilts and Skirts?

Nope, look in the dictionary, a kilt IS a skirt, so is a sarong, a sulu, a tupena, a kikoi or kikoy, so is a djellaba, so is a towel you wrap around you when you come out of the shower or surf....any unbifurcated garment that is not trousers is a skirt or skirt-like garment. If it's bifurcated it's not a skirt, if it's unbifurcated, it is.

Finding people that are uncomfortable with how you look is easy, no matter what you're wearing. Some people are uncomfortable if your jeans are a different color then their jeans...To quote my dad, who brought a lava lava home from Tahiti and wore it to the beach back in the 50's, "If you don't like to see what I'm wearing, look in some other direction".... :think:

[AMM]

It may be an unusual sight to see a guy in a Kilt but why does it make people feel uncomfortable. I'm no less mentaly stable than if I was in jeans. I don't change the way I dress the kilt just ends up with a tshirt, hoody and trainers. Does a garment have its own gender? Or does it take on the wearers?

Cheers
Tom

I'm assuming you're trying to get help in understanding people's reactions.

1. It would help if we knew where you are. The reactions in Seattle (USA -- home of Utilikilts) are likely to be different from, say, a Russian village 1000 km east of Moscow. Your use of the word "uni" where we (in the USA) would use "college" suggests Continental Europe, but I could be wrong.

2. The reasons I can think of why people might feel uncomfortable fall into two categories:

a. They honestly don't know what to make of you, or how to respond. Imagine if you encountered one of your professors, who was wearing nothing but "trainers", on the street. Do you say something about their nakedness? Do you act as though he/she were dressed normally? What do I do if they suddenly say they are the reincarnation of Jesus Christ?

You're less likely to get that sort of reaction in, say, New York City, because people here see people dressed in all sorts of ways. For example, men wearing robes are common in Harlem and Arab neighborhoods, as are men in green kilts on St. Patrick's day and transvestites in parts of Greenwich Village.

b. They feel threatened by your combining what they consider male and female characteristics (that is, a male body and a garment they consider female.) These are usually people who need to see the world in simple, easy to understand terms and are not comfortable with things that don't fit into neat categories. These same people may, for example, be unable to admit that there could be Muslims that aren't terrorists, or (in this country) Democrats who are against abortion, or black people who aren't baskeball players.

Some of these people have gender issues themselves -- for example, men who are afraid they aren't manly enough may feel that someone who seems less than 100% masculine is a reflection on their own masculinity. It's just like the way people who have doubts about their own religious or political beliefs can't stand to have doubters around them.

3. The best way to deal with the "what do you say to a man-in-a-skirt" people is to act normally, and if people seem to be looking at your kilt but not knowing what to say, just mention it in an offhand way. Try to make it seem like it's no big deal -- "I saw Bravehearts and I thought the kilts looked cool", or "my girlfriend likes to see me in it." If you give them the feeling they can talk about it, and that it's not a big issue for you, they'll soon get used to it.

4. The best way to deal with the people who are threatened by who you are is to just act normally. Don't argue with them or dispute their views -- it's a waste of time and will just make them more anxious. Your best hope is that if they see you long enough, they will eventually figure out that the world really isn't going to end just because a man is walking around in a "skirt", and they'll add another category to their world view -- "man in a kilt."

-- AMM

[tommiez]

Yer you were right with Europe, I'm on the outskirts of London. Don't get many men in kilts or anything like that around here. I wear my kilt as an every day thing just because I can. Because I don't see anything wrong with and as a Fashion student perhaps its time for people to reassess garment. Do you think that there is jmuch hope of the kilt/male skirt becoming a mainstream garment?

Cheers

[Runzwithscissor]

I'm new to this forum...and I don't know if I'll even post much, but this thread caught my eye. AMM says it all so well, I have nothing to add to his comments...except --
1) It's so funny that you're on the outskirts of London & kilts seem weird -- the most AWESOME punk kilts are made there. $$$$
2) I live in Arizona, in a Uni town (Tempe), and guys wear their Utilikilts to all sorts of events. It might be that the area has had a Renaissance Faire for the past 20 years, and people are more comfortable with men in kilts. A 21-year old son of a friend saw a bunch of guys in utilikilts at some event here (there are many!), and, while he was at first surprised, thought they looked really cool. I'm making him a Plaid Sillikilt (TM) for one of the events I'm taking him to next week! He's very muscular...and is training to be a pro wrestler! Just wait until one of the WWF hunks wear one -- unless one already does.
3) purists like to reserve the term Kilt for plaid garments. Personally, I think that's silly!
...from a (unique) woman's perspective

[shropshire steve]

[quote="tommiez"], I'm on the outskirts of London.

I have worn skirts quite a lot in London and had no problems, I tend to wear longer length skirts 30” – 36”. Mostly the only comments I have had have been complimentary and encouraging. I have worn skirts to Government meetings in Whitehall, on the tube and generally around and about. If you wear a skirt with confidence and act naturally and normally then for most people it is a 5 minute wonder and your clothing style is soon forgotten.
I am afraid that does not apply to groups of loudmouthed young men roaring about in white vans and yelling out of the window, just treat them with the disdain they deserve.
The term transvestite can only really be applied to men and is an invented term that can only exist against the backdrop of severe social rules on what men can and cannot wear. Why does society have those rules? Fear and uncertainty over gender identity and the need to look right to play the dating and mating game. It’s time to break free from all this. In my experience most people are quite open to change in their expectations of what men can or cannot wear, the huge problem is getting enough men to be manly enough to break out of the mould and dress more freely.
Regards Steve

[AMM]

Yer you were right with Europe, I'm on the outskirts of London. Don't get many men in kilts or anything like that around here. I wear my kilt as an every day thing just because I can. Because I don't see anything wrong with and as a Fashion student perhaps its time for people to reassess garment. Do you think that there is jmuch hope of the kilt/male skirt becoming a mainstream garment?

Cheers

You don't say, but I'm guessing that it is your fellow Fashion students who are making the comments you are complaining about.

If so, I would suspect that it is their insecurity talking. I could be wrong, but I imagine that studying to be a fashion designer must be a high-anxiety place in life. After all, only a tiny minority of these students will ever succeed, and you have no way of knowing if you will belong to this tiny minority. (Even if you have had some designs produced and sold, it could be just beginner's luck.)

And one way of dealing with anxiety about whether you will measure up is to grab on to some set of rules for right/wrong, good/bad, etc., and cling to them desperately, like a drowning man clings to the first floating object he encounters (like a lifeguard )

I remember this from my college days, at an Ivy League (cf. "Oxbridge") college. A lot of the students had been used to being the best in their class in secondary school, and the shock of being just average for a change was such that they had to find some way of feeling securely superior to the rest. (By doing so, I think they wasted a lot of opportunities, but that's another story.)


I would expect that the other people you encounter in the London area are likely to either not care what you wear, or if they ask, it's usually curiosity talking, and a light, friendly answer to their questions and comments will evoke an equally friendly response.

(Exception: groups of young men who have had too much to drink. But you're well advised to avoid such people even if you're not wearing anything unusual.)

-- AMM

[WSmac]

No. I don't believe what you wear is a huge issue to most people, but how you wear it sends a signal... Ian.

THAT is the answer I was going to give!

While I believe many of the other answers hold their own, I firmly believe the topper of the list is Ian's.

Take a look around you whenever you are out.
Watch how people carry themselves... some watch each foot as it hits the ground, others stare straight ahead seemingly driven to an endpoint, others hold up their heads and show confidence as well as an awareness to their surroundings.
The last person described should be you... in your kilt which is a skirt.

Funny thing is, yesterday I dropped by the hospital where I work to check up on a couple of things. I was wearing my UK.
A co-worker remarked, "Nice skirt!", which was meant as a friendly crack.
I smiled and thanked her.
When she replied, "...as long as you don't show up wearing stockings..."
To which I gladly commented about how I might be interested in doing so, and that I couldn't see a problem with any man wearing what he wanted, especially since women got to do that all the time.
I made a reference to advertisements I see for women's jeans and panties... 'boy-leg', 'boy-friend', 'maculine suits', and the rest.

The point is, I am at a point in my life where comments like hers, even if they are meant as 'put-downs', are something I can actually laugh at. I can also provide myself with a very simple defense... "Because I enjoy it".
I no longer care if some folks want to see me as a transvestite because I wear skirts.
Like other guys have said here, it only really matters what I think about myself.

I find that there are enough people around me, some who are important in my life, who don't mind my skirts or actually like them.

That's enough social acceptance for me!

[geegee]

I started off my skirted/kilted life wearing a "proper" tartan wool kilt with all the extras, sporran, knee length hose, etc. etc. Over the years, I started discarding the accessories, finding a kilt more comfortable and in my view, more attractive, without the sporran and long socks, etc. I also started wearing plain denim and khaki knee length skirts.
However, a few weeks ago, we were invited to a wedding and my wife said she would feel more comfortable if I wore my kilt with all the extras, which I did.
At the reception, there was another man wearing a kilt with all the trimmings, and I am afraid he got rather loud mouthed and bad mannered after a few drinks. He eventually found his way over to me while I was talking to some friends and, interupting, said rather loudly "I see we have someone else here entitled to wear the kilt." (Now it so happens that I was born in Scotland from Scots parents, but I have never felt this "entitles" me to wear a kilt.) Everyone is entitled! I repled "No, but it's the only acceptable skirt to wear to an occasion like this, is'nt it?" I wish I could have photographed his face as he digested that! He muttered something I didn't quite catch and went off in search of more whisky.
In my view, the more men who wear a kilt the better, but not if their attitude is so macho that they have to "explain" it away as some sort of exclusive masculine uniform.

Geegee
"Comfort before conformity."