Road to what?

[Bravehearts.us]

I can’t help but express my feelings about how many of my words have been deleted because of someone else’s post or thoughts that I could have expressed if the thread hadn’t been closed. I feel mauled over like a stump in the way of someone trying to build a road. While I can’t help but respect the work and effort, not to mention the expense, Bob has gone to, to keep this board afloat; I also can’t help but feel discouraged. Since I started posting a few years ago I’ve always tried to write something that would nurture understanding and/or something that was thought provoking. And I’ve tried to do it in a respectful and uplifting way. But I’m starting to wonder if the effort of the thought I try to put into my writing will benefit anyone because I never know if my words are going to be “clicked” into oblivion. It’s very disheartening right now. I needed to share this with all of you because I’m not sure how alone I am in these feelings.
As a personal note to you, Bob; we have exchanged emails enough for me to know you are NOT a Gestapo or warden or anything like that disrespectful labeling or name calling, but an intelligent, thoughtful person trying to do your best at what you do. But please consider how others feel when their hearts are put into their words just to have them tossed because of someone elses and where this may lead.

[Bob]

Lar,

I'm sorry about that. Please see the PM.

[Bravehearts.us]

Lar,

I'm sorry about that. Please see the PM.

I did, Bob. Thank you very much.

[binx]

Maybe the Other Stuff section should be re-labelled as Other Stuff Concerning Wearing MUGs. It can be makeup, hosiery, nails, undergarments...That's what this forum's about. The Road to men's fashion freedom.

binx

[Departed Member]

Maybe the Other Stuff section should be re-labelled as Other Stuff Concerning Wearing MUGs. It can be makeup, hosiery, nails, undergarments...That's what this forum's about. The Road to men's fashion freedom. Binx

Mmnn, that's NOT what it says at the Top o' the Board. It's wearing Skirts/Kilts "in the context of men's fashion freedom" that this site is about, not make-up and nail polish - that gives an altogether 'wrong' impression. There are plenty of other websites where folk just love to discuss those sorts of issues. I suspect quite a few of here have had/are having enough 'difficulties' reasoning with our families, etc., that skirt wearing (by men) is not only a valid 'fashion choice' but also happens to be both far more comfortable and healthy. To some sceptical partners, the inclusion of such items (make-up, nail polish, high heels, etc.), would just prompt "I told you so! You are trying to become a woman!" :shake:

[Brandy]

Mmnn, that's NOT what it says at the Top o' the Board. It's wearing Skirts/Kilts "in the context of men's fashion freedom" that this site is about, not make-up and nail polish - that gives an altogether 'wrong' impression. There are plenty of other websites where folk just love to discuss those sorts of issues. I suspect quite a few of here have had/are having enough 'difficulties' reasoning with our families, etc., that skirt wearing (by men) is not only a valid 'fashion choice' but also happens to be both far more comfortable and healthy. To some sceptical partners, the inclusion of such items (make-up, nail polish, high heels, etc.), would just prompt "I told you so! You are trying to become a woman!" :shake:

Those are the kind of topics discussed over at 'The Atrium'. 'The Atrium' use to talk about subjects similar to the ones here at Toms/Skirt Cafe. Then 'The Atrium' went TV/CD/TG. I have no interest in those kind of topics, all I want to do is wear kilt/skirt as an alternative to shorts/trousers.

Boards like Toms/Skirt Cafe are in short supply. Since I have been here since 2000/2001 the traffic has dropped off dramaticly. The fall off has occured as the topics shifted more towards the 'fem' side.

Having stopped off a X Marks the Scot I agree there does seem to be, to much testosterone floating around. It seems to me this board has niche to fill, ie supporting the male whole just wants to wear a kilt with out the excess testosterone or trying to emulate a women.

-- Brandy

[binx]

All the subject items I mentioned are available to men: makeup, hosiery (Comfilons and others), taking care of the nails (what's wrong with preventing in-grown, fungus...with a manicure, pedicure and some polish?), and undergarments (Underkilts, International Male...). Might as well remove some of the current links here then. Now aren't shoes garments? Do they have a gender? Agreed, high heels are not comfortable IMO.

binx

[crfriend]

Mmnn, that's NOT what it says at the Top o' the Board. It's wearing Skirts/Kilts "in the context of men's fashion freedom" that this site is about, not make-up and nail polish - that gives an altogether 'wrong' impression.

True, the masthead does state that, but then goes on to state that "[Skirt Cafe] do[es] not exclude any potential choices."

I do not view the judicious use of items like hosiery as tipping too far to the "fem" side of things. Whilst hosiery (pantyhose/tights) are not typically worn with kilts, they're useful with skirts if one is going for a "polished" look. I have several skirts that simply look naff with either socks or bare-legged; the socks look out of place and bare legs look trashy -- so, that leaves two alternatives; either put up with hosiery or don't wear those types of skirts.

That said, I don't use makeup nor do I do anything with my nails (other than bite them; yes,I know it's a bad habit). However, I'll not criticise or take issue with blokes who experiment with those things.

For me, the crux of the issue is whether we're "staying in character" (our own, not a fantasy) when we're pushing the boundaries. If we are unmistakably being and acting as ourselves when dressed in "alternative fashion" then there's not a problem. I've never had the desire to go "all out" and try to "pass", and trying to pass is not what this community is about; my desire is to wear what I'd like to, in styles and fabrics not used in "traditional" menswear.

There are plenty of other websites where folk just love to discuss those sorts of issues. I suspect quite a few of here have had/are having enough 'difficulties' reasoning with our families, etc., that skirt wearing (by men) is not only a valid 'fashion choice' but also happens to be both far more comfortable and healthy. To some sceptical partners, the inclusion of such items (make-up, nail polish, high heels, etc.), would just prompt "I told you so! You are trying to become a woman!" :shake:

At issue here may also be the question of, "How tolerant/understanding is your wife/girl-friend?" Some are more understanding than others, some less so; some will not only tolerate experimentation, but actually encourage it. Some will shriek in horror and run for the door at the merest mention that their man might want to dispose of the inseam. It comes back 'round to my assertion earlier that it's more how we portray ourselves and how we act when we're out of trousers that counts.

I suppose there's a meta-lesson here, as well. Ours is a statistically tiny community -- so small, in fact, that it's never even been scientifically looked at; why do we want to possibly needlessly offend members therein? True, there are some things that are a wee bit off-colour, but those things tend to sort themselves out eventually. Slamming the door on experimentation when it's undertaken in a masculine manner, and in character, I feel is silly; so long as we present as ourselves there shouldn't be any problems.

[Departed Member]

All the subject items I mentioned are available to men: makeup, hosiery (Comfilons and others), taking care of the nails (what's wrong with preventing in-grown, fungus...with a manicure, pedicure and some polish?), and undergarments (Underkilts, International Male...). Might as well remove some of the current links here then. Now aren't shoes garments? Do they have a gender? Agreed, high heels are not comfortable IMO. binx

That they might be. The point is that this particular forum grew on the basis that such topics were rarely relevant to the topic in hand. The only non-skirt link I can see is "Comfilon", at least there is some relevance where extreme weather may affect skirt/kilt wearing! Manicure, etc. on the other hand(!) does not. As with those (blokes) who want to discuss/don their bras.................................! :shake:

[crfriend]

Now aren't shoes garments? Do they have a gender? Agreed, high heels are not comfortable IMO.

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). Some heels can be very comfortable, indeed. Back when I was growing up in the '70s, and even into my early professional career, heels were commonly available for men -- and frequently pretty well executed, too, so they were comfortable. Once heels went out of fashion (for men) in the mid '80s, it took me quite a while to get used to the flats that replaced them.

I'd be tickled pink to find a good man's shoe with a 2" heel.

[binx]

True, the masthead does state that, but then goes on to state that "[Skirt Cafe] do[es] not exclude any potential choices."

For me, the crux of the issue is whether we're "staying in character" (our own, not a fantasy) when we're pushing the boundaries. If we are unmistakably being and acting as ourselves when dressed in "alternative fashion" then there's not a problem. I've never had the desire to go "all out" and try to "pass", and trying to pass is not what this community is about; my desire is to wear what I'd like to, in styles and fabrics not used in "traditional" menswear.

My desire as well. I've been told by my pediatrist to go for it, so it has a practical side, and why not some polish as long as I'm there. I agree about certain skirts with hose and shoes. I'm not one to shave, although many here do, so the overall look is better. They can go together, and still be "staying in character". Perhaps makeup is the wrong word; skin care would be more appropriate.

binx

[Since1982]

Perhaps makeup is the wrong word; skin care would be more appropriate.

Why worry about the word "Makeup"? Everyone on TV uses it, male or female, everyone in a movie uses it, even Captain Kangaroo used it as did ALL the Mickey Mouse Club kids. All the on TV professional wrestlers use makeup and I'm talking about some really really masculine looking monsters. I think the "type" of makeup used is where the differences lie. Most Newsmen and women just use gender specific makeup and the same thing with Movie actors and stage players. I personally dont see any thing wrong with the word "makeup" by itself as long as it's not being used to garishly represent certain groups of people like CD's, TV's, TS's, or TG's.

As far as "skin care" is concerned I think EVERYONE uses some kind of skin care part or all of the time. Soap is skincare among other things. As people grow older and wrinklier more of that definitely IS Makeup.

[Departed Member]

There is a massive gulf between 'make-up' and 'skin/nail care'. Events 60 years ago, currently being shown on TV, emphasise the fact that one, Herrman Goering, 'painted his nails' and (shock, horror!) wore a kimono! Have attitudes changed since then? To a degree, yes, but to an ever receptive audience, the thought that some men may wear coloured nail varnish and even dress in a kimono is still 'shocking'. To you and I, well, we say, "So what?", "What's the problem?", but for some, we're now potentially neo-nazis (not as 'nasty' as feminazis, but not far short), as well as 'odd' or whatever term is currently in vogue. It's about 'image'. MSM failed, in that the media concentrated their camera work on anyone who displayed, in their opinion, anything they considered 'fem'. Eddy Izzard may have 'got away with it' on stage make-up-wise, but therein lies the rub - "On stage". Same applies to anyone under the 'lights'. I agree with Skip, it's the association that is paramount, in the public's perception.

[WSmac]

While I consider myself to be between the two traditional genders, I believe that western men should learn the benefits of wearing skirts and dresses outside of current western gender constraints.

What draws me to this site is the discussion of men wearing skirts (kilts included).
I'm not looking for people to connect with in the TG community since I have a couple of other sites I can do that in.

I think talk of men using makeup, hosiery, heels, and tending to body care is fine as long as it is not diverting the discussion away from the topic of men wearing skirts for the sake of clothing options.

Any focus on gender or sexuality that does not tie into 'men wearing skirts as men's fashion', takes away from what I see as the scope/mission of this website and what the original, "Tom's Cafe" was about.

This is one opinion from someone who mixes gender in many aspects of his life.

[Milfmog]

Any focus on gender or sexuality that does not tie into 'men wearing skirts as men's fashion', takes away from what I see as the scope/mission of this website and what the original, "Tom's Cafe" was about.

I agree whole heartedly!

This is one opinion from someone who mixes gender in many aspects of his life.

...and one from someone who does not but is glad to have the chance to read opinions from others with differant backgrounds and viewpoints

Have fun,


Ian.