Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
User avatar
KeithWearsSkirts
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:32 am

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by KeithWearsSkirts »

crfriend wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 11:04 am The problem here is the historical fact that the tern "unisex" was merely code for "butching up the women" and turning them into ersatz men. It NEVER, EVER (at least in the USA) referred to things moving in the other direction.
Thanks for your reply. Your post prompted me to do a little web searching which ended up leading me to Jo B. Paoletti's books "Pink and Blue: Telling the Boys from the Girls in America" and "Sex and Unisex: Fashion, Feminism and the Sexual Revolution" which I have just finished reading. I found them both a very interesting read and very accessibly written. (For those interested in the TLDR option, I would suggest the chapter on the Peacock Revolution in Sex and Unisex.) Her research definitely supports what you said about the unisex clothing trend of the 60's and early 70's doing more to move women's clothing to incorporate some formerly masculine elements than vice versa.

I cannot speak for her but I also think that Paoletti would argue that this is not a conspiracy. One thing she suggests is that what ultimately emerged as unisex clothing represented the aggregate effect of many different people all trying to figure out what they wanted and pushing in different directions. The movement was very heterogeneous in composition.

A second phenomenon that she points out is that both the first wave of feminism (think turn of the last century suffragettes) and second wave (think 1970's women's movement) both saw conventionally feminine clothing as and norms in a negative light, as something holding women back. They were primarily focused on women obtaining access to things reserved for men (from the right to vote to careers, etc.). So, that social and intellectual context played a big role in tilting unisex clothing in the masculine direction. (Conversely, she also underscores the unfortunate role of pervasive homophobia pushing men away from adopting more conventionally feminine clothing styles.)

In Sex and Unisex, she argues that what any particular generation sees as traditional gender norms for clothing often goes back no further than their childhood. In Pink and Blue, she documents how what is considered masculine or feminine, or even whether gender differentiation should be the primary focus of children's clothing, varies dramatically over time. In Sex and Unisex, she argues that there has historically been a pendulum effect where those dressed one way as babies by their parents swing in the opposite direction when they dress their own babies.

At the very end of Sex and Unisex, Paoletti suggests that the gender binary that contrasts masculine with feminine may be running out of steam in terms of cultural influence or usefulness. One way to interpolate to the present thread might be this: Instead of thinking of skirts or other items of clothing as inherently expressing masculinity or feminity, instead, think of the specific attributes conventionally associated with feminity and think of wearing skirts as a way for men to express those specific attributes. For example, just off the top of the head, instead of thinking of wearing a skirt as expressing feminity, one could think of it as expressing empathy, kindness or supportiveness. In the process, the idea is that men wearing skirts begins to weaken the association of these traits with feminity.

My sense from reading Skirt Cafe is that one can distinguish two substantial contingents of men wearing skirts. Some make use of the conventional association of skirts with feminity to push back against the conventional association of feminity exclusively with women; Others make use of the conventional association of feminity with women (and masculinity with men) to push back against the association of skirts with feminity. So, the same skirt can mean something different when one man wears it from what it means when another man wears it. The general understanding of what a skirt signifies on a man will then reflect a dialogue between these different meanings. (And maybe some just find them comfortable or like the profile of an A-line skirt.) :-)

Paoletti, J. B. (2012). Pink and Blue: Telling the Boys from the Girls in America. Indiana University Press.
https://iupress.org/9780253009852/pink-and-blue/

Paoletti, J. B. (2015). Sex and Unisex: Fashion, Feminism and the Sexual Revolution. Indiana University Press.
https://iupress.org/9780253015969/sex-and-unisex/
User avatar
Barleymower
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2423
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:28 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by Barleymower »

A well thought out post keith, supported by references. I would add that men's reasons for their wearing skirts in particular, are for as many reasons as there are men wearing them. In an equal world we don't need to justify why we do what we do. One thing we all have in common, they make us feel good.
new2skirts
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by new2skirts »

Legless Shorts could be clever marketing this summer 8) :mrgreen:
A life lived in fear is a life half lived ☆☆☆
robehickman
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2024 5:00 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by robehickman »

KeithWearsSkirts wrote: Sun Jan 04, 2026 6:48 pm My sense from reading Skirt Cafe is that one can distinguish two substantial contingents of men wearing skirts. Some make use of the conventional association of skirts with feminity to push back against the conventional association of feminity exclusively with women; Others make use of the conventional association of feminity with women (and masculinity with men) to push back against the association of skirts with feminity. So, the same skirt can mean something different when one man wears it from what it means when another man wears it. The general understanding of what a skirt signifies on a man will then reflect a dialogue between these different meanings. (And maybe some just find them comfortable or like the profile of an A-line skirt.)
There are also reasons beyond just the gender thing. Personally, I wear skirts for folk dancing because they are fun to twirl in and play with. I also wear skirted garments at home most of the time because they are physically comfortable. Thus 'practical function' is another reason.
User avatar
Uncle Al
Moderator
Posts: 4399
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:07 pm
Location: Duncanville, TX USA

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by Uncle Al »

robehickman wrote: I also wear skirted garments at home most of the time because they are physically comfortable.
Thus 'practical function' is another reason.
I totally agree with "Practical Function".
Skirts make great 'parts catchers' when working with/repairing small items.

Uncle Al
:mrgreen: :ugeek: :mrgreen:
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2025
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3686
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by Grok »

KeithWearsSkirts wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 1:54 am 'unisex' has a soft spot in my heart even if I prefer 'genderless'. I also like the fact that 'genderless' resonates with the idea that clothes do not have gender (e.g., Yotka, 2000).
I like the idea of genderless clothing, as a way to avoid the strictures of the Man Coffin. :mrgreen:
Damon
Active Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri May 03, 2024 6:48 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by Damon »

Search for Unisex Skirt or Unisex Dress, which some people obviously do, then click on the item and about 95% of the time it will take you to a page where the perfectly unisex looking dress or skirt is described quite unnecessarily as being a womans skirt or dress, or in the case of children as being a girls dress or skirt. I believe that will turn away potential customers.

I remember seeing a Quora plea from a mother trying to find a nightshirt for her son which was either for boys or at least unisex, but could only find them for girls. I am certain that any one selling a not too girly looking nightshirt could easily have made a sale simply by refraining from gendering their product and calling it a nightshirt or even unisex nightshirt in the copy as well as the Google Ad instead of adding the unnecessary word 'girls' to the description. Quite a few mothers gave the advice to buy her son oversize T shirts which he could wear as a nightshirt, and said that is what they do. So there is a demand and sellers are turning away buyers.

All they have to do to possibly sell more product and make more money is remove the words women's or girl's from the details section.

Then there are the companies which do say it is a man's or a boy's dress or skirt throughout and will then charge $500 for a simple pinafore dress for a boy or, unbelievably over ten thousand dollars for a tweed skirt for men.
I believe the market is out there of people looking for dresses and skirts that come with permission for a man or a boy to wear them. Admittedly not yet a big demand, but a sale is a sale and all it may take is to remove the off putting words which say to a potential buyer "This is not for you."
mr seamstress
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2024 4:49 am

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by mr seamstress »

Damon wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 3:26 am

All they have to do to possibly sell more product and make more money is remove the words women's or girl's from the details section.
There is this other option. If the label bothers individual, just put your own label over the manufacture's label. There is a market that will sell labels what you want say on it. You can buy iron on or sew on labels. This option works well on generic clothing, since a lot of the clothes just have small simple labels anyway or just no labels other than stating size.. Option 2 just buy shirts for the big & tall section that would be longer if that child isn't tall. 3rd option is to buy two same shirts and have those shirts sewn together making one long shirt. This option is easier than making one from scratch. Option 4 go to Etsy.com and look there for boy's dresses and skirts with boy's label. At Etsy.com one can find 50's boy's infant dresses.

If brick and motor stores add signs over clothes and state they are unisex, just like it says on internet. My local Walmart had Kaftan dresses for sale in women isle, but this type of dress is sold as unisex all over internet including Walmart. Some of these clothes that are sold as unisex now have labels in more generic style. Since Bless Girl brand is now being sold as unisex at Walmart.com with their labels been change to reflect as more to being unisex clothing, but is in women's isle. These shirts use to be be label numeral size like 16, now only says small medium, so forth. Some brands change their label as being sold as unisex in todays market.

Society going to claim a male is wearing a female clothes no matter what label says when it comes to dresses and skirts. I can say this because of different clothing I own has the original label identified that garment was intended to be worn by male; this include but not limited to my Incerun dresses, society say they are female clothes. I have sewn two tshirts into to one long shirt from men isle and everyone says it is a dress. No matter what is on the label, it doesn't stop society's bigotry, even it is oversize tshirt.

EDIT:
A lot of generic clothes comes without labels other than sizing, which listed as small, medium, and large. You can find this info as part of description, as a selling point.
Last edited by mr seamstress on Mon Jan 05, 2026 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Jim
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:39 am
Location: Northern Illinois, USA

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by Jim »

mr seamstress wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 5:47 am There is this other option. If the label bothers individual, just put your own label over the manufacture's label. ... Since Bless Girl brand is now being sold as unisex at Walmart.com with their labels been change to reflect as more to being unisex clothing, but is in women's isle.
This reminds me of something silly I did. I have a shirt that was labeled "Southern Lady". I picked out one of the embroidered letters. It now says "Southern Lad".
steamman
Distinguished Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by steamman »

Language for “men’s skirts”? How about just skirts? Because this is the entire problem: the assumption that clothes have a gender. They don’t, people do.

I find it amazing on this forum how some people have such hangups about masculinity and femininity. The truth: it’s all made up nonsense. There is nothing inherently gendered about any item of clothing, it’s an artificial label that was assigned. Because if it isn’t, what exactly is masculinity and femininity? It’s not an inherent natural property of humans.

I look at clothes as to whether they suit my body shape, nothing else. And that’s exactly what the fashion industry needs to do. Bin gender and sell by type and body shape. Then it brings ultimate freedom for everyone.
User avatar
Uncle Al
Moderator
Posts: 4399
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:07 pm
Location: Duncanville, TX USA

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by Uncle Al »

Well said steamman, well said :!:

Uncle Al
:mrgreen: :ugeek: :mrgreen:
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2025
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
robehickman
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2024 5:00 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by robehickman »

steamman wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2026 3:55 pm Language for “men’s skirts”? How about just skirts? Because this is the entire problem: the assumption that clothes have a gender. They don’t, people do.

I find it amazing on this forum how some people have such hangups about masculinity and femininity. The truth: it’s all made up nonsense. There is nothing inherently gendered about any item of clothing, it’s an artificial label that was assigned. Because if it isn’t, what exactly is masculinity and femininity? It’s not an inherent natural property of humans.

I look at clothes as to whether they suit my body shape, nothing else. And that’s exactly what the fashion industry needs to do. Bin gender and sell by type and body shape. Then it brings ultimate freedom for everyone.
The concepts of masculinity and femininity in fashion are actually not entirely arbitrary. The shapes of garments found in the last 1000 ish years of woman's fashion are exaggerations and extrapolations of the natural shape of female bodies.

It appears that the term 'skirt' is already widely used in the fashion industry as a genderless term for any garment or part of a garment that covers the body from the waist down with a tube or cone of fabric. For example, if you looked for a pattern for a men's frock coat, the pattern pieces for the skirt part would be labelled 'skirt'. There are many patterns in the books 'the cut of men's clothes', and 'the Tudor tailor' with pattern parts labelled 'skirt'.
steamman
Distinguished Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Re: Language for Men's Skirts and Skirted Men

Post by steamman »

I disagree. Men and women come in a huge variety of shapes and sizes, there is no “standard” men’s and women’s body shape. This has been the entire problem that the fashion industry has perpetuated, using idealised mannequins to create clothes for men and women and that has caused immense problems for both sexes. How many times have you read stories of women having huge problems getting dresses that fit? If there was only one body shape, that problem wouldn’t exist.

It’s utter nonsense, clothes should only be fitted via actual body shape and the dimensions, nothing else. It has nothing to do with gender and this is a lie that the fashion industry has peddled for far too long. I’ve proved it myself: I can wear standard sized dresses without alteration. What does it tell me: my body shape is quite similar to what some women have.

Gender is a social construct, there is nothing natural about it and it’s time it was binned. People can still follow whatever they want, but the social control and stigma that has come with it has to go. That’s what we have been battling against. Fortunately, Gen Z and Alpha are driving this because they are ignoring so called gender norms. A system that never had any legitimacy in the first place.
Post Reply