Men who are interested in normalising skirts in menswear need to learn to sew

[robehickman]

Garment design is to a large extent based on extrapolation of the shape of the body, finding shapes that work harmoniously with it. While there is some overlap, male and female bodies are not shaped or proportioned the same, and thus garments must be designed to look natural on one or the other.

There are also subtle details like skin textures and the general shapes of body features (more rounded / curvy vs more angular), and these things matter a lot. It impacts what types of fabrics look harmonious with a given person's body, some fabric textures and fabric weights look more natural than others.

Men wearing skirts designed for women often look inharmonious or 'weird', because the fabric types, garment shapes, visual proportions, and design features embedded in those garments, conflict to a large or small degree with the body of the person wearing the garment.

Skirts for example that have a lot of 'rufflyness' in their design to my eye don't harmonise so well with the typically more angular shapes of the average male body. Designs with a plain flat front as found in the kilt, pleats or large godets often work.

It is critical that the entire outfit looks proportionate, and it is not possible to simply take a skirt, pair it with existing 'menswear' upper garments, and have the result 'work' in almost all cases. Existing upper garments are too long and in most cases too unfitted / shapeless for this to look reasonable.

My belief is that skirts will be accepted into menswear once there is sufficient availability of options that enable outfits that actually look good on the male body.

As we (humans in 'western' cultures) have not yet reached that critical mass, it would be highly advantageous for any man who is interested in this, to learn how to pattern draft and sew. This frees you from the embedded design choices within commercially made garments designed for women.

Sewing is not hard to learn, and there is an enormous amount of information available online.

- Basic knowledge frees you to hem top and bottom garments to be more proportionate with your body.

- Flat pattern drafting and / or draping enable you to explore things without constraints, and are easier than you may think.

Men and women are not shaped the same. Skirts in menswear are not, should not, and to a large extent, physiologically can not be, an attempt to imitate women. They are a unique and at this time, almost completely unexplored, possibility space.

An aspect of why mainstream culture accepted women in trousers is that trousers started being designed to highlight the features of women's body shapes, and the same needs to happen for menswear skirts.

[Pleats]

I agree. Learn to make your own. You can find second had machines if you don't want to buy new. Hand sewing is an option per my story that follows.

When I was in high school I really wanted to wear skirts. I was too afraid to try to buy one. I had an idea. Girls at school wore denim skirts. I thought those would make a suitable skirt for a guy. I had an old pair of jeans that I had not worn for awhile. Could I convert that into a skirt? Now days there are YouTube videos of doing just that. Not so at that time.

My mom had a well equipped sewing room. I never took any interest in sewing. Not something a guy did. I knew I should not attempt to use the machine. I would probably mess it up and then have to explain what I was doing. Of course I could not ask my mom for help on "my project". I had done some hand sewing with a needle. That would have to be my method of sewing.

I looked at how denim mini skirts were made by way of catalog pictures and a few quick glimpses at the store. I notices a type of construction in the front of some of them. Rather than just a panel of material in the front these had a "V" shape below the zipper. Looked to me like something you would have to do to eliminate the crotch seam.

Off to the sewing room to find the seam ripper. I cut the legs off to a length for a mid-thigh mini skirt. Opened the crotch. Figured out I could take some material from the legs to fill the void. Don't recall how I finished the back. Before long I had MY skirt.

I wore it hiking several times. I avoided people as much as I could as I was wearing a mini skirt. Used that skirt for a couple of years until the waist was too small.

I did this before YouTube videos that show basically what I did. Now there are a lot of sewing videos online. Buy some cheap fabric to start with. Figure out your measurements and sewing techniques. You will have to make a few attempts. Before long you will be able to graduate to better material and have a presentable garment. Converting pants will be quicker as the waist construction is already done.

[Grok]

In the sewing section there are a couple of threads about converting jeans into skirts.

[Grok]

An aspect of why mainstream culture accepted women in trousers is that trousers started being designed to highlight the features of women's body shapes, and the same needs to happen for menswear skirts.

Consider an anatomical differences between the sexes-the pelvis. This is a difference that is evident in the skeleton, and is related to pregnancy/childbirth, or not.

When you compare women, wearing trousers tailored for female bodies, to men wearing trousers tailored for male bodies, there is a striking difference in physical appearance.

Ultimately, this conformed sufficiently with cultures' tendency to place men and women in distinct, gendered rigs.

Historically, Western Civilization dictated trousers for men, skirts for women. This distinction was rigid, very gendered, but was actually contrived.

[robehickman]

An aspect of why mainstream culture accepted women in trousers is that trousers started being designed to highlight the features of women's body shapes, and the same needs to happen for menswear skirts.

Consider an anatomical differences between the sexes-the pelvis. This is a difference that is evident in the skeleton, and is related to pregnancy/childbirth, or not.

When you compare women, wearing trousers tailored for female bodies, to men wearing trousers tailored for male bodies, there is a striking difference in physical appearance.

Ultimately, this conformed sufficiently with cultures' tendency to place men and women in distinct, gendered rigs.

Historically, Western Civilization dictated trousers for men, skirts for women. This distinction was rigid, very gendered, but was actually contrived.

The striking difference in appearance is unavoidable, because men and women are not the same shape. It is possible to put a woman in a 'sack dress' type outfit and cover their curves, but it doesn't change the fact that they are different.

Placing men and women in different boxes is actually not entirely arbitrary. Women would have historically been pregnant a lot of the time. They are also physically less strong than men are due to how they are built. It is logical given those constraints that they would fall into cultural roles relating to being at home, and skirts / dresses are very comfortable for most tasks relating to being at home.

I am not a fashion historian, but to the extent that I understand it, western fashion from the middle ages to today evolved (very roughly) as follows:

- Initially everyone was wearing very similar, shapeless knee to ankle length dresses constructed out of squares and triangles of fabric.

- Woman's fashion started to evolve to emphasise the features of the female body, like the breasts and body curves, becoming more tight fitting.

- Woman's skirts started to get very large, via petticoats and eventually hoop frames. Large (wide) skirts are an obvious thing to do with a woman's body, by extrapolating from the waist to hip curve.

- The skirts of men's dresses got shorter over time, I've seen stated reasons behind this relating to the need to ride horses and perform physical labour.

- There was a period of time where men were wearing petticoat breaches, which looked like skirts. These evolved into less-full breaches and eventually trousers.

- The male dress evolved into the 'doublet', and over time the skirt portion got shorter and shorter on avarage.

- The fronts of the doublet were cut out at some point turning them into the tailcoat, and the tails were eventually dropped entirely.

- Skirted garments in menswear can however be seen up through the Victorian period with the frock coat. Long coats remained in use until recently in the form of trench coats and great coats. Many modern suit jackets could be considered to include a short skirt as they end at about the bottom of the crotch.

- Woman's trousers were normalised over the 20th century, due in large part to various political factors as well as women needing practical clothing for factory work during the two world wars.

I do not agree that western culture dictated that trousers are for men. Rather, humans seem to accept that the things they grew up with as children are 'normal' and defend this. So you end up with choices that started for practical reasons, turning into cultural fixations that have lost their logical basis, because the situation has changed.

[STEVIE]

Really?
I have a great interest in skirts for men but I have neither need nor wish to learn to sew.
Nope, just not happening and all of this gives me hope for the future.
The only way for MIS to become mainstream is for men to be seen wearing skirts every day, all day and anywhere.
That's the need right there.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Really?
I have a great interest in skirts for men but I have neither need nor wish to learn to sew.
Nope, just not happening and all of this gives me hope for the future.
The only way for MIS to become mainstream is for men to be seen wearing skirts every day, all day and anywhere.
That's the need right there.
Steve.

And the only way for that to happen is for men to get over their fears.

[STEVIE]

And the only way for that to happen is for men to get over their fears.

The only way to conquer fear is to meet it head on.
That won't be achieved by theorising about body shapes and optimum proportions either.
Steve

[Barleymower]

And the only way for that to happen is for men to get over their fears.

The only way to conquer fear is to meet it head on.
That won't be achieved by theorising about body shapes and optimum proportions either.
Steve

I was once told: "Little boys are such tender little souls. Girls are much tougher". And yet we treat boys/girls/men/women as if the opposite were true.

[Mouse]

Not sure I fit into this thread but I have made my own kilts and skirts, from both sewing and glueing with my latex creations. The patterns I follow are either adapted from or take elements from purchased patterns or are totally my design, worked to my body shape.
I have never had formal training, but treat garment making the same way I treat any DIY project. A sewing machine and overlocker (serger) are just more power tools to master and anyone who knows me, knows how I like power tools. Youtube is an excellent source to get you started in any new skill, then you practice and work out what works for you, from the many videos available.

I guess where I diverge from this thread is, I make garments to please the small boy inside me, and the old free dressing man I have become. In the last couple of weeks I have made a new latex skirt and leotard from my own patterns and with other items including a chain I 3D printed (another power tool) put together a Halloween outfit for which, I got so many compliments, I am in shock. You can see more here

I know the results of my work probably do not fit with any of the aims of the original post in this thread, but I am beyond happy with the response I got. Of course normal working days for me, you will find me in a standard Roman denim skirt and T-shirt, probably on a construction site in London, just going about my business in a skirt, day in, day out.

[denimini]

I admire creative people who can make their own clothes. I have the equipment and a few basic skills but just can't find the time. Luckily I can buy many skirts that fit me perfectly,although no doubt designed for women.

[DrFishnets]

I took up sewing recently because naturally I'm a creative guy that adores creating my own things be it art, music and clothes. Going through the creative process of making things is so good for my mood and helps with my anxiety and depression and is so relaxing and rewarding. I am the only guy in the class as the rest are all women. I’m in the process of making a circle skirt. So far I’ve learnt how to use a sewing machine and I’ve drawn a few designs for my skirt. Unfortunately, I haven’t being attending much due to health issues like bad migraines and feeling tired all the time.

When I attend my sewing group I always wear a skirt and a pair of black tights and all the women there don’t mind one bit and one or two compliment me on my style which is nice and gives me more confidence. One woman asked me what I was planning on making and I told her without hesitation that I’m going to make a skirt. She said that will be a challenge and when she asked me who the skirt was for, I told her with confidence in my voice that the skirt will be for me. She smiled and said the words “good for you”. I smiled back.

[STEVIE]

Really?

That "Really" was a challenge to the title of the thread, it was not a criticism of the seamsters among us.
There's an implication that there are qualifying criteria to be a bona fide guy in a skirt or dress.
That, of course, is complete nonsense and the sooner we quit theorising over a perfect single pipe garment for males, the better.
The creatives can keep creating, in the meantime I'll cross the aisles as I see fit.
If I end up looking weird, so be it and I'm sure Susie wouldn't mind lending her guidance too.
Steve.

[robehickman]

Really?

That "Really" was a challenge to the title of the thread, it was not a criticism of the seamsters among us.
There's an implication that there are qualifying criteria to be a bona fide guy in a skirt or dress.
That, of course, is complete nonsense and the sooner we quit theorising over a perfect single pipe garment for males, the better.
The creatives can keep creating, in the meantime I'll cross the aisles as I see fit.
If I end up looking weird, so be it and I'm sure Susie wouldn't mind lending her guidance too.
Steve.

Respectfully, please stay out of this thread.

[STEVIE]

Respectfully, please stay out of this thread.

Respectfully declined.
Unless you can justify the assertion in the title that is?
Steve.