Rewriting the rules for menswear – new wearable skirts for men

[crfriend]

Its a good thing in introducing some diversity but it won't matter unless people actually start wearing them. Men's and woman's fashion are always going to be different because male and female bodies are not shaped or proportioned the same way.

It's valuable to point that out, but it's also worth recalling that may styles of skirts can work very well on the male frame. A-line and pleated skirts will almost universally work so long as the hem-length is carefully considered.

It would be valuable to increase the scope of what 'acceptable' menswear is.

Just getting the notion of skirts on guys would be one heck of a start on that path of exploration -- because it is a path of exploration. We all need to figure out what looks good on us, not some hypothetical runway stick-figure.

[Grok]

Its a good thing in introducing some diversity

It's valuable to point that out, but it's also worth recalling that may styles of skirts can work very well on the male frame. A-line and pleated skirts will almost universally work so long as the hem-length is carefully considered.

It would be valuable to increase the scope of what 'acceptable' menswear is.

Just getting the notion of skirts on guys would be one heck of a start on that path of exploration -- because it is a path of exploration. We all need to figure out what looks good on us, not some hypothetical runway stick-figure.

Very good points

[robehickman]

It's valuable to point that out, but it's also worth recalling that may styles of skirts can work very well on the male frame. A-line and pleated skirts will almost universally work so long as the hem-length is carefully considered.

I don't disagree with that. A lines (in the right fabric and not too full) and pleated skirts work well. Skirts with large godets in the sides can also work. My experience has been that circle skirts tend to look weird on men but I can't state why. Adding too much bulk at the waist very rarely works.

Just getting the notion of skirts on guys would be one heck of a start on that path of exploration -- because it is a path of exploration. We all need to figure out what looks good on us, not some hypothetical runway stick-figure.

Yes. The focus needs to be on finding and normalising skirt styles that look natural and proportionate on men, and distance from the 'imitation of women' ideology. Men are not all shaped the same, and some things will work better on some than others.

Something that often causes problems is hem length - if a skirt is too short or too long in proportion to the torso, the entire outfit looks weird.

Fabric types, weight, colour / pattern, and garment shape also matter far more than may be obvious, and is a reason why men wearing garments designed for women isn't ideal.

Proportion between top and bottom garments is also important, and another common cause of #that looks weird' is top garments that are too long. The 'boxy' cut of the majority of men's tops is also not ideal to pair with skirts because it results in a shapeless visual line.

Because of proportional issues, it can actually be easier to make dresses that look good on men, vs a separate skirt and top. There are countless examples in fashion history.

Dresses are probably also an easier sell, because most people have seen a man in a bath robe and its easy to base something on that silhouette. Long raincoats are also seeming to become more common, with the same silhouette.

[Grok]

My experience has been that circle skirts tend to look weird on men but I can't state why. Adding too much bulk at the waist very rarely works.

I'm glad that you mentioned that. At one time I was trying to create a circle skirt for myself.

[Grok]

The focus needs to be on finding and normalising skirt styles that look natural and proportionate on men,

Something that often causes problems is hem length - if a skirt is too short or too long in proportion to the torso, the entire outfit looks weird.

Fabric types, weight, colour / pattern, and garment shape also matter far more than may be obvious,

Proportion between top and bottom garments is also important, and another common cause of #that looks weird' is top garments that are too long. The 'boxy' cut of the majority of men's tops is also not ideal to pair with skirts because it results in a shapeless visual line.

This thread seems to be loosely based on an attempt to design a skirt suit for men. Based on other threads, it appears that other individuals have gotten similar ideas, and have attempted to design their own versions.

In the case of this thread, it looks as if there was an attempt to combine a long skirt (or similar silhouette) with a long jacket.

I recall an image in which a long jacket was combined with a shorter skirt (knee length, if I recall correctly). Proportionally, the rig appeared top heavy.

An alternative would be to use a short jacket. Somewhat similar to the jackets worn with kilts.

However, though a suit is a coordinated ensemble, and there should be a match between tops and bottoms, a jacket is not necessarily required. Consider:

1. Obviously, the skirt is the most important innovation. A skirt would be revolutionary.

2. A second, significant innovation. No jacket. The matching upper garment would be a waistcoat

[Uncle Al]

These comments bring my mind back to the Eurostar Uniforms.
The jacket with the skirt, looks good and well proportioned.
The jacket is slightly longer than a Kilt jacket but - - IT WORKS
(Wish these 'uniforms' could be purchased by regular people, not just employees)

Uncle Al

[robehickman]

These comments bring my mind back to the Eurostar Uniforms.
The jacket with the skirt, looks good and well proportioned.
The jacket is slightly longer than a Kilt jacket but - - IT WORKS
(Wish these 'uniforms' could be purchased by regular people, not just employees)

Uncle Al

(Also responding to the post preceding the quoted one).

The reason why some visual proportions work and others do not, is that humans tend to prefer things in simple mathematical ratios:

- Longer tops will work work with long skirts because it splits the body into a 1 to 1 split, the top and bottom are the same length.

- Shorter tops work with shorter skirts because it splits the body into 3 equally sized 'chunks', head to bottom of top garment, bottom of top garment to bottom of skirt, and bottom of skirt to floor.

This is related to an idea called 'the rule of thirds'.

Waistcoats / vests often pair well with skirts on male bodies because they create an optical illusion of narrower shoulders.

The reason why the Eurostar uniform 'skirt suit' works despite the top garment being longer, is that the top and bottom of the suit are the same colour. Unifying the colour visually eliminates the horizontal waistline, and makes the whole outfit read more like a 'dress'.

The overall shape of the jacket also helps break up horizontal lines and has the same effect.

I shared a bunch of thoughts about these topics in the following article about a year ago:

https://robehickman.com/skirt-silhouettes-men

[Barleymower]

The thing is, if we want to change the style, we have to decide what we want and wear it day in day out. Then you either become a strange person with a very individual style, or a trailblazer that millions follow and your style becomes the new normal fashion.

I guess if you are happy to be either, then it doesn't matter what you wear as long as you are happy.

If we do want to change mens style it has to be something that appeals to men and doent make them feel like everyone is sniggering at them.
I saw some guys in skirts in Brighton at the weekend, just denim and jumper. Nothing special and good to see.
Maybe we should have brighton meetup?

[Grok]

Consider the robehickman article. "For a longer skirt the proportion then becomes more like one third torso, two thirds skirt."

Could we get a similar ratio if a longer skirt is paired with a short jacket or waistcoat?

Could we get a dress like effect if jacket or waistcoat are coordinated with a skirt in terms of color?

[STEVIE]

it doesn't matter what you wear as long as you are happy.

Exactly right!
The bad news is that there is no empirical formula or magic bullet.
We are discussing fashion and taste here, which is as subjective and fickle as any business could get.
Skirts for men will become acceptable or they won't, it really is that simple.
There is no such thing as a "normal" human body shape, we come in every conceivable format and we all have different thoughts too,
The greatest step we could ever take is to talk about clothes, no male or female, just clothes!
Steve.

[Grok]

Waistcoats / vests often pair well with skirts on male bodies because they create an optical illusion of narrower shoulders.

I have come across references to similar optical illusions, using stripes.

Horizontal stripes are supposed to make the shoulders seem broader.

Vertical stripes are supposed to make shoulders seem narrower.

[Mouse]

Maybe we should have brighton meetup?

I think it would be fun to meet up in different places. I wonder if Norwich would be good since we have a number of members from Norfolk who often come to London. There again we could meet further west near to you and obviously Birmingham, where Kieren comes from to most Meet ups.

[yardstick]

If we do want to change mens style it has to be something that appeals to men and doent make them feel like everyone is sniggering at them.
I saw some guys in skirts in Brighton at the weekend, just denim and jumper. Nothing special and good to see.
Maybe we should have brighton meetup?

Totally agree, the initial hurdle is to make the plain denim skirt as acceptable menswear as it can be made to look masculine but at the same time not that obvious to the casual observer and much less obvious than a kilt. This is the key point because us guys are not used to being noticed for our clothes on the street so too many stares from onlookers can be off putting for a lot of potential wearers.
I know a lot of guys on here like to experiment with colours and why not but that isn't what will sway joe public towards skirts because for them its too far outside their comfort zone.

[yardstick]

Maybe we should have brighton meetup?

I think it would be fun to meet up in different places. I wonder if Norwich would be good since we have a number of members from Norfolk who often come to London. There again we could meet further west near to you and obviously Birmingham, where Kieren comes from to most Meet ups.

Places where others are seen wearing skirts are always a good idea for meet ups as the larger the numbers the more normalised it seems to the onlooking public. Different locations may also motivate other members to take part and gain valuable confidence.

[robehickman]

it doesn't matter what you wear as long as you are happy.

Exactly right!
The bad news is that there is no empirical formula or magic bullet.
We are discussing fashion and taste here, which is as subjective and fickle as any business could get.
Skirts for men will become acceptable or they won't, it really is that simple.
There is no such thing as a "normal" human body shape, we come in every conceivable format and we all have different thoughts too,
The greatest step we could ever take is to talk about clothes, no male or female, just clothes!
Steve.

Unfortunately, this entire concept does not work because, as noted several times, male and female bodies are not the same shape. There was just today on the sewing subreddit, a woman asking how to adapt men's trousers to fit her because the waist was far too big, and the pants were pulling in the hips and looked bad. What did people say to her? 'buy trousers for women'.

Needing to make skirts / trousers to fit different kids of men's / woman's bodies is a hard fact. There will always be a split between men's and woman's garments, because different things are visually proportionate with different body shapes.

Yes it is true that different people are different shapes, but the male and female shapes within that state space are not the same and hardly overlap. The subconscious brain can recognise male vs female in almost all cases just by looking at someone’s body shape, regardless of what they are wearing, and even if the person's face is not visible.

Waistcoats / vests often pair well with skirts on male bodies because they create an optical illusion of narrower shoulders.

I have come across references to similar optical illusions, using stripes.

Horizontal stripes are supposed to make the shoulders seem broader.

Vertical stripes are supposed to make shoulders seem narrower.

Those optical illusions are widely known and used in clothing design and styling.

Actually, a open vest or jacket creates a favourable optical illusion on men's bodies because the vertical stripe formed by the open jacket against whatever is worn under it. This vertical stripe makes the torso look longer than it is.