'Toxic' 'masculinity' in women and toxic femininity in men

[Barleymower]

The writer says it all in the first few paragraphs.
"hatred on both sides, creating a society of misandry on the left and misogyny on the right.
The good news is that we are becoming conscious of this. Sometimes you have to get more sick before you can get better."

https://andrewpgsweeny.medium.com/toxic ... d978249b70

It's an older essay from 2017 but just as relevant if not more relevant today. We are more aware an accepting of our inner masculine and inner feminine but the war in society is heating up. The humble skirt is in some respects the front line, while simultaneously ignored.

[Stu]

If we use the classical definition of misogyny, then it means a hatred of women. How many people hate women as a group? Do such people hate their mothers, grandmas, daughters, sisters etc? Do they hate the nurse who patched them up in the Emergency Department? Do they hate the young woman who handed them their burger and fries at McDonald's? I contend that actual misogyny is extremely rare even if some people - predominantly men - sometimes say disrespectful things about women or mistreat them. I also think genuine misandry is also rare, although there are some feminist groups that seem to advocate for this.

As a slight aside, I was challenged recently by an AI system when I referred to the Suffragettes in the UK a century ago as a "terrorist group". Anyone who knows the history of that group would not contest that's exactly what they were.

[Fred in Skirts]

As a slight aside, I was challenged recently by an AI system when I referred to the Suffragettes in the UK a century ago as a "terrorist group". Anyone who knows the history of that group would not contest that's exactly what they were.

First of all, AI systems are at best just an extension of their creators. Yes they can "learn new things" but they can not and do not know how to properly put them in context with the truth. So the best thing I can say is DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD THEY TELL YOU!

[Barleymower]

I think the writer makes an interesting point that within men and women there are elements of the opposite sex. We all come from the same base after all. Even here in this gender non conforming forum there is a need to firmly state "we are men!" The same rhetoric is all around us. You are a man or a women. There is no in-between, you are what you are. It's the way you were born and it is how you will leave this world. Our society cannot accept that the boundaries are not as clear as we have been telling each other.

We are becoming more conscious of what we really are and people are coming out of the woodwork, standing up and saying "I can't conform to these rules". We are getting sick as a society, sicker by the day, the sickness is part of getting better. I am sure we will be in a better place sometime in the future.

I am happy though that I can dress as I please without any trouble(ish).

[FranTastic444]

I must admit, I struggled with this essay. My initial thought is that this article is full of sweeping generalizations from someone who comes across to me as a pseud. My immediate reaction in such a situation is to do some research on the author, and this is what I came up with.

His (open) FB page also has this image -


@Stu - talk about opening a can of worms One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I guess that by the same categorization, some of the people who battled apartheid in SA and racism in the US were also terrorists. Were the J6 crowd who stormed the US Capitol in DC terrorists?

[Barleymower]

TF the purpose of posting the article was to open some meaningful discussion. It wasn't an attempt to bring the bloke down.
He expressed an opinion one worthy of some discussion. The outcome of the discussion might be that you don't agree with some or all of his assertions.
Doing your best to make some sense of the mixed up world around you doesn't make you pseud.

[Stu]

@Stu - talk about opening a can of worms One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I guess that by the same categorization, some of the people who battled apartheid in SA and racism in the US were also terrorists. Were the J6 crowd who stormed the US Capitol in DC terrorists?

The Suffragettes were wealthy women. They didn't want all women to have the vote; they didn't want working class people of either sex to have the vote. They just wanted what their wealthy husbands had and were prepared to cause explosions, arson and kill innocent people to get that. They also wanted all men to fight in the trenches in World War 1 and called men who didn't cowards, fastening white feathers to any man they saw in cililian clothes - but they didn't want women to lay down their lives, obviously. I recommend reading The Suffragette Bombers: Britain's Forgotten Terrorists by Simon Webb. It should be required reading in any school which teaches about this.

The ANC were certainly terrorists in their day and many of their actions were totally inexcusable, e.g. https://allthatsinteresting.com/necklacing
And apartheid still exists in South Africa, just in a different form,

I am not aware that the the J6 crowd who stormed the US Capitol were involved in a campaign of bombings and assassination.

Anyway, what I said was an aside and I was hoping it wouldn't take us off topic. I don't believe in [rad-fem hate-speech redacted] or femininity; the whole notion is absurd to me. Both of these phenomena are descriptive. They are indicative of the characteristics that make males distinctly male and females distinctly females. It is no more masculine behaviour to abuse a woman than it is feminine behaviour to start a spiteful rumour.

[TonautBrom]

I am not aware that the the J6 crowd who stormed the US Capitol were involved in a campaign of bombings and assassination.

Oh that’s alright then.

[Stu]

I am not aware that the the J6 crowd who stormed the US Capitol were involved in a campaign of bombings and assassination.

Oh that’s alright then.

I'm in the UK. I can only comment on what happens in the US according to what I am told by the media here. If I have got it wrong, and the "J6 crowd" did commit acts of terrorism - a sustained campaign of bombings, arson etc, then feel free to enlighten me.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I am not aware that the the J6 crowd who stormed the US Capitol were involved in a campaign of bombings and assassination.

Oh that’s alright then.

I'm in the UK. I can only comment on what happens in the US according to what I am told by the media here. If I have got it wrong, and the "J6 crowd" did commit acts of terrorism - a sustained campaign of bombings, arson etc, then feel free to enlighten me.

As far as I read it, they were ready and willing to commit assassination, but the Capitol security guards managed to keep their targets (Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi) away from them.

[crfriend]

The "action" on 2021-01-06 was essentially a riot fomented by the outgoing president who wanted to hang onto power using any means possible. He is still awaiting trial on the matter, and may well pardon himself for it as well as the members of the mob. There was no real organisation to the matter, it was an unruly mob that had gotten all stirred up.

[Stu]

As far as I read it, they were ready and willing to commit assassination, but the Capitol security guards managed to keep their targets (Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi) away from them.

I don't condone their behaviour, but I'm not aware they had that intention. Do you have a source?

[crfriend]

As far as I read it, they were ready and willing to commit assassination, but the Capitol security guards managed to keep their targets (Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi) away from them.

I don't condone their behaviour, but I'm not aware they had that intention. Do you have a source?

Once in a while some of the raw footage manages to "escape" and that's what's most instructive in these matters -- it was utter chaos. There was no sense of organisation; that mob was just that -- and unruly and violent mob. Sure there were shouts of "Hang 'em!" and the like, but in the face of cops armed with guns the mob had little recourse and no bravery. Fired up mobs are not something one wants to deal with, and from a personal perspective, I wouldn't have gone within 100 miles of DC that day, knowing what was going to be "on hand".

An angry mob, yes, "terrorists", no. They had no organisation, no tactics other than random acts of mayhem, and no overall goal. Thus, just an angry and incited mob. Thanks for stirring them up, Donny.

[Faldaguy]

There is considerable debate about the extent of planning, but what is clear is that many groups were very aware, ready for violence, and there were clearly orchestrated efforts to bring them to DC that day. There has been definitive testimony that the Trump rally granted attendance at his 'send off' speech' to participants with weapons that would customarily have been banned by his security teams. Certainly the 'mob' had several groups that could easily be called 'terrorists' (private club militias) with plans to "over-throw" the government under the guise of calling it "defending" their version of democracy. Their degree of organization certainly is as well established as many groups around the globe that we do call "terrorists". Regardless of the label -- they were acting far outside of the law; fortunately their lack of a coherent plan, some of the the Capital police were able to blunt their impact with only a few deaths of persons; but the idea of respect for the rule of law and governance was deeply wounded, if not quite a mortal blow -- whether by poorly organized terrorists or simple criminals. I see little distinction of merit -- a Billboard sized sign that we are in dangerous territory.

[crfriend]

Note that I am not condoning -- in any way -- the acts and deeds undertaken on that day. Quite the opposite, in fact. That the mob was disorganised is likely what saved the day. Thus, your assertion that it was (a) far outside the law and (b) posts a large placard of warning on the face of current events rings entirely true. A few truly bad actors with powerful weapons could have easily have changed the landscape. Fortunately, the general disorganisation of the riot disrupted any potential really threatening actions.

2021-01-06 stands as a truly dark day in US history.

I fear that it's only going to get worse.