pre-18th century ballet costumes for men

[timemeddler]

https://www.thelewisfoundation.org/2022 ... -the-ages/

Things have changed a lot in a few hundred years. Apparently this ballet skirt is called a tonnelet and was made of stiff wire. Sort of like a hoop skirt perhaps?

[Barleymower]

Good post TM, shows a time when men could be as flamboyant if not more so than women.

[Mouse]

Good post TM, shows a time when men could be as flamboyant if not more so than women.

Depending on what parties/events you sign up to attend, a man can today, get as dressed up as much as he likes. The fun is then, do you dare to travel to and from the event dressed up?

[Seb]

I like the blue one, id wear it to a party or event... Even a Christmas party with work if I had access to it. Not for daily wear though.

[Coder]

Good post TM, shows a time when men could be as flamboyant if not more so than women.

Depending on what parties/events you sign up to attend, a man can today, get as dressed up as much as he likes. The fun is then, do you dare to travel to and from the event dressed up?

Yep, such as college parties, you know, if you are in college at the time and are doing it for a "laugh". I never got the opportunity, but would have as an "under the radar" sort of thing.

[moonshadow]

Good post TM, shows a time when men could be as flamboyant if not more so than women.

My understanding is that it had more to do with social class than gender.

Peasants had better not be flamboyant.

Kinda interesting as in today's world, the tables have turned. We can get away with wearing whatever we want because ultimately, we don't matter in the grand scheme of things. (Proles don't matter)

But, if you are in a position of power, you'd better conform. See the thread in mandatory ties in Parliament.

[STEVIE]

My understanding is that it had more to do with social class than gender.

The key phrase is "noble amateurs".
I presume this still took a lot of time and training, not to mention the costs of these costumes so it was highly exclusive and elitist.
The peasantry had to earn a crust in the most literal sense so this was definitely not for Joe or Jane Bloggs.
I'd also doubt if the performances were open nor meant as entertainment, but more likely as a way of improving the dancers' social standing among their peers.
This was not a nice world for being poor in and little has changed.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

My understanding is that it had more to do with social class than gender.

Peasants had better not be flamboyant.

Kinda interesting as in today's world, the tables have turned. We can get away with wearing whatever we want because ultimately, we don't matter in the grand scheme of things. (Proles don't matter)

But, if you are in a position of power, you'd better conform. See the thread in mandatory ties in Parliament.

An interesting topic inasmuch as what's gone before gives us a clue where we are heading now.
Disclaimer: it's just my musings nothing more intended.

There's a nice article in the Wikipedia (and previously discussed here in the cafe), that is Sumptuary law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumptuary_law

It's not beyond imagination that we have sumptuary law right now. We can dress as we please but some of us would not dare, some are pushing forward and some of dress as they please without a care in the world.
Where do you fit? why are some free and some handcuffed to an unwritten law?

PS I'm on my way to a client workshop in trousers shirt and jacket. Yep that's right. Why? I'm not broke but if I eff this up I'm not sure how I would make the living I need to support my family, so I'm not risking it. It's hot and I'm boiling.
A lady just breezed past me in a light summer dress. At this point I feel the tight bonds around me.

Opinions welcome.

[Mouse]

I am not sure any of this matters anymore.

As a number of you all know, I tend to follow odd resources to get ideas for what next to add into the Mouse style. One recent area of study is a set of YouTube Chanels devoted to taking shots of beautiful women getting in and out of beautiful cars outside the Hotel de Paris, Monaco. Now these people obviously have plenty of money, so are unlimited as to what they can afford to wear. So some of the women know how to dress and are stunning, then again some don't. The cars are great and I would take any one of them, if offered.

So look beyond the cars and the women and clock the men. I don't mean the valets, the kids taking pictures or the holiday makers. I mean the guys with the money accompanying the beautiful women. These men are also unlimited as to what they can afford to wear. Do any stand out? Do any impress? Some have not tried, obviously. All are a boring. Most of the women are in a totally different class to the men.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CvuOQpv0GtY
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/i4bhlTxM3Wo
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l53qAYiu2Wc
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TGZvqmZR2lc
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iAxYbCOqh2U
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZdU-hxd-px4
There are many more where these came from and all have been picked from random to show the idea.

So my point is, the difference between an ordinary well dressed guy, and a very wealthy, well connected guy, seen from a video is not apparent.

[Barleymower]

I've seen this mouse, very wealthy men dress in a very sober manner. Possibly the risk of losing everything gets greater the more you have to loose.

[crfriend]

Possibly the risk of losing everything gets greater the more you have to loose.

More likely just "force of habit",

True, we no longer have codified "sumptuary laws", but we still have very fierce "standards" and "societal policing" to deal with,

[Mouse]

I just think that you should not be worried about any of this. Working in my line of work, I meet wealthy people from around the world. I treat them all the same as I treat cafe members I meet. They are all standard humans that want their tech to work. You can see how I dress for work on my picture pages and that is how I meet clients, new and current. My clients are all wealthy and some are famous, but they are all the same as you and I. I do not let any of them push me around, but I do my best and work hard to get them into my "Happy client" status. Just be you and be confident and proud of you.

[Barleymower]

I just think that you should not be worried about any of this. Working in my line of work, I meet wealthy people from around the world. I treat them all the same as I treat cafe members I meet. They are all standard humans that want their tech to work. You can see how I dress for work on my picture pages and that is how I meet clients, new and current. My clients are all wealthy and some are famous, but they are all the same as you and I. I do not let any of them push me around, but I do my best and work hard to get them into my "Happy client" status. Just be you and be confident and proud of you.

Mouse it's not the client. They are fine.
In my line of work it's quite male orientated and old fashioned. They are liable to be embarrassed by me if I turned up in a skirt. At least that how I see it. I'm freelance so could find myself not needed.

[Mouse]

Mouse it's not the client. They are fine.
In my line of work it's quite male orientated and old fashioned. They are liable to be embarrassed by me if I turned up in a skirt. At least that how I see it. I'm freelance so could find myself not needed.

I am not trying to put pressure on anybody. I know I am in a fortunate position. I just want to lay out that it is possible to work for the wealthiest people in the land, while wearing a skirt and looking as I do with nose ring, earrings and nail polish if I am in the mood, along with Mary Janes, new for this summer. I

I know the risks are there, of loosing everything for your skirt wearing, so I totally understand anyone in trousers and I am not trying to shame anyone.

I am also aware that when I am introduced by an electrician or builder, to a prospective new client, there may be a reluctance on the part of the electrician/builder to have me as part of the crew they are proposing to the client. If I think on and I am worried, I may resort to a black kilt for the first meeting. But, I have made a decision with myself, that I am not backing down from my skirting way. I have got to a point in my life where this is me and you either want my expertise along with me or you don't. I am 60 so old, not so easy for younger guys building their career.

Also to be clear. The Mouse wardrobe for work, currently comprises of only 5 subdued skirts, four of which you can clearly class as male skirts. One black StumpTown kilt, one camo kilt, made by me, two Skirtcraft skirts, one gray, the other plum and finally one black denim Roman working skirt. The top is always company T-Shirt and Fleece. Below the skirt, opaque hosiery in any colour and flat boots. In the last year the slight changes have been the first real skirt (Skirt labeled "women's"), which I have written about. This summer saw the introduction of Mary Jane shoes and 15d hosiery. Also all working skirts have deep pockets, so handbags are not used for work. Mrs Mouse is also there to ask the question, "Are you sure you want to work in that?" if I am ever tempted to add to the working wardrobe.

The line between "Work" and "Play" is also 60 miles apart. I live in a village near Cambridge and most of my work is in London, none is in my village. So working at home and going to the local builders merchant is all in the realm of "Play", but while working. I have documented a couple of months of my life, showing how boring my working skirted outfits are compared with my "Play" outfits. http://www.skirtcafe.org/forums/viewtop ... 86#p256986

[moonshadow]

Speaking from experience in regards to employers and coworkers knowing about me wearing skirts, I've found that in my situation it's better to at least try not to mingle the two worlds.

It just seems that once it's outed, you cease to be whatever it is that your occupation encompasses, and you become "that guy that wears skirts".

People talk, and they gossip, and while it may not cause you to get fired, I've seen where it does seem to hinder professional development.

Here in Seattle, I don't hide in my home, but I don't talk about my clothing choices to coworkers, and should I happen to be in the same location as one on my day off, if I have the opportunity, I'm going to exit stage left.

I've just been through this too many times... it's not worth it, it's just too much bigoted bullsh!t. And don't think "Liberals" are your friends. I can now say that I've had my balls busted by both Liberals and Conservatives regarding the clothes I wear.

I'm not in Seattle for the politics (God knows), I'm here because it'd easier to disappear in a big city full of strange and unusual people.

I came to Seattle to become invisible.

And BTW, don't get too worked up over people believing they we are LGBTQ whatever... nobody really buys into that, not even the left. Whatever you "identify as" is between you and God... trust me, nobody else cares.

Anyway... I digress. I'm doing well at my job, and I believe that NOT outing the clothes I wear has helped.