Are we engaging in fashion freedom?

[denimini]

It's cis-hetero men for whom there is massive, massive stigma and backlash if they dare put on a skirt, even in urban America. It's cis-hetero men's freedom to wear skirts that has made zero progress for decades.

I wonder how others know that the person is "cis-hetero" to be confident in targetting stigma and backlash.
It does sound a bit like a self imposed, circular cringe to me. Someone putting themselves in a box and wanting to stay in it in the eyes of others whilst digressing from the sterotype.

Indeed, and that's down to the shrillness and ever-presence in-your-face of the LGBTQWTF crowd. It should not be this way, simply by the numbers.

It is true that such a minority group have had some success recently after a long and sad history of stigma and discrimination, including bashing and murder. Us skirt wearing men are a smaller minority and I dare to say we don't suffer anywhere near the same bad treatment.

[webboy42]

Fashion freedom doesn't imply the absence of criticism or insult, only that you have a choice, and choices have consequences. How you deal with the consequences is also a choice: you can cower in fear, shrug them off, or come out swinging. Would it be nice if everyone could wear whatever the hell they want without consequence? Of course. Is it realistic? No. Is it something to aim toward? Absolutely.

[Grok]

Question:
You may not like the skirt below but is it too much. When do clothes become too girly?

When you believe that the majority of viewers think it is too girly. If you don't care what others think then it will not be too girly.

I think that there are a few members who could try this skirt, and make it look good on a man.

[new2skirts]

I don't think it's a lack of mental fortitude, I think it's merely a matter of, "Meh. Not worth getting worked up over." Vastly more a question of laziness and acquiescence than anything else.

I agree and would add that, for the most part, I think that we in the clothing freedom club are too hard on men in general. In an age and time when most women don't wear skirts and dresses frequently, why should we expect that a significant number of men would want to? Women, Western women anyway, have pretty much acquired the freedom to wear whatever they want. To say that there are no restrictions on them is foolish at best and somewhat dishonest. Their choices are judged by the wearer's age, size, shape, and what have you. My partner is more apprehensive about going out without makeup or wearing something that she thinks others might judge as "too young" for her than I ever was about wearing skirts in public.
As far as being thought of as gay, and that's a real thing for sure, I find it a bit amusing that while I know a lot of gay men, not one of them wears skirts or dresses. Go figure.
Are we engaging in fashion freedom? Of course, we are. Our fellow men are as well, they are free to follow the crowd and wear what makes them comfortable because unquestioning conformity is one of the most comfortable things there is. My only ask is that I can dress as I want with impunity.

I have a gay acquaintance who's a member of X Marks The Scot kilt forum, when I suggested a skirt to him, the look of revulsion on his face was priceless. There is a lazy stereotype that a man wearing anything slightly feminine is gay, wheras most who are gay want to resemble men. But bit by bit, the tide is turning thanks to hundreds of Instagrammers and Redditors and young people on more mainstream social media like TikTok, who don't give a sh1t and head out there in a skirt. Some dolled up with makeup, handbag etc, and some just rocking a jeans skirt. Some dress for work, having spoken to managers.

I think young people don't use outmoded terms like "fashion freedom", they will just say "clothes have no gender" preceded by a hashtag. So people still engage in fashion freedom, with varying levels of flamboyance. Look how well Mark Bryan, who used to post here, has done with modelling deals with shoe and stocking manufacturers, and getting in the mainstream media.

So they are out there...

[Barleymower]

I think young people don't use outmoded terms like "fashion freedom", they will just say "clothes have no gender" preceded by a hashtag. So people still engage in fashion freedom, with varying levels of flamboyance.

This is a good postscript to the thread. There is hope.

[Mouse]

I have a gay acquaintance who's a member of X Marks The Scot kilt forum, when I suggested a skirt to him, the look of revulsion on his face was priceless. There is a lazy stereotype that a man wearing anything slightly feminine is gay, wheras most who are gay want to resemble men.

I find the gay scene quite interesting where skirts MIS do not feature in any shape or form. So I don't get why, when a man wears a skirt he is assumed to be gay.

[STEVIE]

I find the gay scene quite interesting where skirts MIS do not feature in any shape or form. So I don't get why, when a man wears a skirt he is assumed to be gay.

As the saying goes "Assume, makes an ass of you and me".
That assumption does not arise from the gay, but rather the gender normative hetero individuals who are a significant part of the human race.
These folks should not be called the great unwashed because they are also likely to believe that cleanliness is next to their version of Godliness.

I have a gay acquaintance who's a member of X Marks The Scot kilt forum, when I suggested a skirt to him, the look of revulsion on his face was priceless.

Even more priceless to think that the Kilt is a perfectly acceptable "skirt" for gay men.
Jings, crivvins and help ma boab.
This thought will keep me chuckling all day, I do love some nice poetic sacrilege with a glass of good irony.
Thanks.
Steve.

[webboy42]

I find the gay scene quite interesting where skirts MIS do not feature in any shape or form. So I don't get why, when a man wears a skirt he is assumed to be gay.

In truth, I think my mum’s assumption when she saw me in a skirt the first time was actually that I was “turning” trans. I did have an interesting discussion with my therapist recently about gender identity and I decided that I really do consider myself male even if I enjoy wearing skirts and often enjoy inhabiting female roles while playing interactive fiction or writing fiction.

[Jim]

I find the gay scene quite interesting where skirts MIS do not feature in any shape or form. So I don't get why, when a man wears a skirt he is assumed to be gay.

I thought drag shows were stereotypically by those accepting of the label "gay". This is the men in dresses or skirts that most folks are aware of.

[phathack]

I find the gay scene quite interesting where skirts MIS do not feature in any shape or form. So I don't get why, when a man wears a skirt he is assumed to be gay.

I thought drag shows were stereotypically by those accepting of the label "gay". This is the men in dresses or skirts that most folks are aware of.

Dressing in Drag has a cartoonish look to it with over the top makeup and hair and bright colored dress with lots of sparkle.

[Barleymower]

I have a gay acquaintance who's a member of X Marks The Scot kilt forum, when I suggested a skirt to him, the look of revulsion on his face was priceless. There is a lazy stereotype that a man wearing anything slightly feminine is gay, wheras most who are gay want to resemble men.

I find the gay scene quite interesting where skirts MIS do not feature in any shape or form. So I don't get why, when a man wears a skirt he is assumed to be gay.

Mouse I think it is mainly those with limited grey matter that make these assumptions.
I'm sure you know this but I'll say it anyway:
They see a man in a skirt and assume that because he is wearing (in their minds) women's clothes that he wants to be a women. Women like men, therefore he must be gay.
Also to explain why boys should not wear (in their minds).girls clothes: it would confuse them.

It's nonsense of course but also helps me to know such attitudes are widespread and considered normal. Just because it's considered normal doesn't make it right.

[DrFishnets]

MIS is a prime example of the saying “Never judge a book by its cover”. Most men like us who wear skirts and dresses are heterosexual men and wear them because they like the freedom of choice and the comfort. Also dresses and skirts look fabulous and very versitile when designing an outfit.

As already stated here the assumption that men who wear skirts and dresses are gay is complete nonsense.