Hypothethical Question

[crfriend]

I would just wear a skirt and a blouse along with pantyhose and heels.

Why are pantyhose and heels mandatory? Women have mostly rejected them.

[jamie001]

CR, Pantyhose and heels are definitely not necessary. I wear them when getting really dressed-up for an occasion. On most days, just a skirt and women’s low-heel sandals or ballet flats. I am trying to be a good citizen here on the Cafe, so I hope that my response was not offensive to anyone. It is just my style.

Jamie

[JohnH]

I like maxi dresses so I can wear calf length stockings when I wear heels, For mid length dresses I wear calf length stockings .

John

[JohnH]

I would just wear a skirt and a blouse along with pantyhose and heels.

Why are pantyhose and heels mandatory? Women have mostly rejected them.

I maintain that's part of the Great Female Renunciation.

Sometimes when you want something done you have to do it yourself.
And if you want to see a dress along with hosiery and heels maybe you have to wear those articles of clothing yourself.

John

[Mouse]

I would just wear a skirt and a blouse along with pantyhose and heels.

Why are pantyhose and heels mandatory? Women have mostly rejected them.

Sorry, I started this series of posting by talking about some snooty UK establishments requiring men to wear jackets and ties. John said he was going to wear a dress, Jamie replied with what he was going to wear. The main aim of these places is for people to dress well, so for Jamie that would be heels and hosiery.

I was trying to give examples of where clothing rules are in force today and how these are being eroded by modern society. So things I was thinking of are the London Clubs like the Garrick and some enclosures at sporting events. Since we have no clothing laws in the UK, apart from covering certain bits, these are the closest we have for reference.

Garrick Club

Dress Code
Members, reciprocal members and male guests are required to wear jackets and collared shirts at all times and ties if they are lunching or dining in the Coffee Room. Ties need not be worn in the Coffee Room by members, reciprocal members or male guests who arrive after 9.30 pm for After-Theatre Supper. Ladies may wear trousers but not jeans. No denim, trainers or gym shoes are allowed. This does not apply at weekends when the Club is not fully open.

Or the Stewards enclosure at the Hendly Royal Regatta

GENTLEMEN'S DRESS CODE
Gentlemen are required to wear lounge suits, or jackets or blazers with trousers, together with a tie or, if preferred, a cravat.

No shorts, leggings, tracksuits or jeans.
LADIES' DRESS CODE
Ladies are required to wear dresses or skirts with a hemline below the knee, or jackets or blazers with trousers, or trouser suits. Whilst not a requirement, it is customary for ladies to wear hats.

No shorts, leggings, tracksuits or jeans.

None of these dress codes is ever a problem for me, since I don't have the money for any of these types of establishments.

[JohnH]

Climate has a lot to do with men not being required to wear jackets in the DFW area of Texas. We have months where the highs exceed 38°C/100°F. . However we have air conditioning in buildings and vehicles as a matter of course.
Mouse, you don't need to apologise for bringing up the topic of dress codes. That led to a very interesting discussion.

John

[denimini]

None of these dress codes is ever a problem for me, since I don't have the money for any of these types of establishments.

Same here .............. and what a relief.

I am a member of the local golf club, however I don't play golf and don't socialise there, it is more to give support for one of the few social venues in a small remote town.
I have never been sure of the dress code except that I know men can not wear singlet tops and women can only wear shoulder straps if it is part of a dress ............. and pyjamas are not accepted! At least it is not very upmarket.

Recently I was showing people around town whose ancestors started a well known national business in this town. I was wearing a mini skirt when showing them around and when it came to visiting the golf club building I was not going to change. The subject of my skirt only came up when a lady was espousing the benefits of skirts and said she never wore pants, which prompted me to totally agree, thus drawing attention to my mini skirt. She was secretary of the golf club so I assume that it is now OK, if not before.

I had to wear a suit and tie at my last year of secondary school and vowed that I would never wear either again, which I have honoured.
I was the only local government Councillor who did not order a Blazer, nor wore one. I was on a board of management for a National Park and wore pants to meetings although most people on the board had seen me in mini skirts; just a voluntary protocol.

[JohnH]

Sometimes, just for grins, I actually wear a man's coat and tie outfit on Sunday mornings, something very few men do, instead of a dress with heels.

John

[jamie001]

I believe that the first order to rebellion for men that do not currently wear skirts is to reject the necktie! I will never forget the state of the union address several months ago. Behind Joe Biden were Kamala Harris and Mike Johnson. Kamala and Mike were waring identical clothing, however Kamela had an open neck while Mike was kearing the obligatory necktie. I get angry when I see this over and over again. Women enjoy the comfort of an open neck and men are required to wear the noose. Kamela and MIke’s outfit were identical with the exce;tion that Kamela was wearing high heels.

Watching television news programs also grieves me to no end! Female newscasters have bare shoulders wearing a sun dress, and the male newscasters are all wrapped up in a suit with a necktie perfectly tied in a Windsor knot. The women look like they are going to a party, where the men look like they are going to address the United Nations.

Why can’t men revolt against this discriminatory dress code, just like women revolted against the requirement that forced wearing of pantyhose? If for not other reason, but for comfort!

Also, if you examine a lot of women’s outfits that are classified as “elegant dress”, you will find parallels in men’s fashion that are classified as “casual”. An example is the Polo shirt. Why is the dress shirt with a tie the only formal outfit for men in a formal setting?

I once discussed this with a male manager that I reported to about 15 years ago, and his reply regarding the necktie is that we don’t want to see open necks because some men have chest hair sticking out two inches from their collar. The necktie prevents this. It is surprising to me that these men with chest hair sticking out several inches beyond their collars can’t see this problem in the mirror, or maybe they see it and just don’t care. This is the only legitimate argument to necktie wearing that I ever heard. If men are allowed open necks in the workplace, just make a requirement that chest hair sticking out from the collar is unacceptable for both men and women.

We haven’t even got to the subject of men wearing skirts yet! I believe that before real progress can be made, men need to take control of their wardrobes and ditch the necktie as an unnecessary and ancient instrument of torture and give employers and establishments the middle finger regarding this requirement.

[STEVIE]

None of these dress codes is ever a problem for me, since I don't have the money for any of these types of establishments.

Like the other Marx chappie, I wouldn't belong to a club that would accept me as a member anyway.
Fact is Mouse, if you had the money and connections, I'm pretty sure "exceptions" are made, eg Sir Grayson Just a Guy in a Frock Perry.
Without these, forget it unless you are exceptionally resilient, no legislation is likely to help, the other members would simply wear you down and let nature take it's course.
Indirect and subtle, little tangible, just the way that larger society keeps the non-conformist weirdo mavericks in check much to the detriment of all.
My point is really that men in skirts don't get to choose the labels that are applied to us.
Whether it is seen as a positive or negative, men wearing skirts are different, other, weird or plain queer, that's just how others see us.
In the past on this site we had a thread about the "Walmartians". I just pointed out that we are seen pretty much in the same way, so maybe not so quick to judge or ridicule.
I really don't care if anyone disagrees, feel free, but if your skirted journey has been plain sailing, wow, the force strong in you, must be!
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Like it or not the UK is a diverse country now with very little left of what the country was 40 years ago let alone 100 years ago.

What's my point? Here in the south east I see all sorts of outfits, a man in a skirt is just one of them. Most people, men and women dress in jeans / leggings, and a top some sort. Wearing a skirt on its own isn't drawing so much attention to you anymore unless you let it.

The real issue is not what we are wearing but dealing with the prejudices of those nearest to us. If they are supportive then the battle is largely won. For me the next biggest battle ground is government and the media. They are never going to listen to me, so why should I worry? I just wish they would stop attacking vulnerable people to deflect from their own selfish imperious ends.

[Mouse]

Saw a man in a full suit, pink tie, the business, yesterday on a station platform among a sea of denim and general stuff. Funny thing, he appeared to be the unusual out of place guy. Of course he may have been thinking that the crazy guy in the hat and skirt was the unusual out of place guy?

[JohnH]

I would not dream of wearing a man's coat and tie outfit in a supermarket. I would REALLY stand out. There are enough women wearing dresses so I don't stand out wearing a dress with my beyond shoulder length hair and bust.

John

[STEVIE]

The real issue is not what we are wearing but dealing with the prejudices of those nearest to us. If they are supportive then the battle is largely won. For me the next biggest battle ground is government and the media. They are never going to listen to me, so why should I worry? I just wish they would stop attacking vulnerable people to deflect from their own selfish imperious ends.

Ooooh, BM, I can feel a "kith and kin" rant erupting in Aberdeen so leave that alone. Politicians are crowd pleasers by nature so no disagreement there either, this diversity thing?
My thought is simple. When you tell me that you are completely able to wear a skirt at work, I'd say we have arrived.
That's not a challenge, let's say a benchmark for MIS.

There are enough women wearing dresses so I don't stand out wearing a dress with my beyond shoulder length hair and bust.

Ironically John, that is identical to my feelings many years ago and the polar opposite of my attitude today. Now I feel proud to "stand out" as a Man in a Skirt, regardless of where I am or in whose company I happen to be.
For grins, belt out some arias while you push the cart, that'd really mess up a few heads.
Sorry, but "blending in" won't advance fashion freedom for men in any way that I can imagine.

Funny thing, he appeared to be the unusual out of place guy. Of course he may have been thinking that the crazy guy in the hat and skirt was the unusual out of place guy?

This is my favourite Mouse.
Pink tie, eh what, by Jove! Fellow must lean to the left, maybe bat for the "other side"? Wouldn't be surprised if he'd on those damn boxer short yankee things and tartan socks. OMG, was he carrying an umbrella, if it was anything other than black and correctly rolled, he is quite assuredly weird, not one we'd recommend for the club, eh?
He may even have thought, "I will jolly well wear a skirt tomorrow, just like that rather splendid chappie over the way", who knows?

Steve.

[Barleymower]

Steve, at my work we have a monthly business update. At the last update they talked about the business for 15 mins then 45minutes on:
- Promoting women in engineering, to have a more even m/f split
- the menopause
- menstruatiom time off
- the gender pay gap
- minorities pay gap
- LGBT alliances

After all that, if they started crying because I turned up in a skirt they would not have a leg to stand on. I am sure they would not want to stand on that leg.
If I had a problem it would be mostly me. I can wear a skirt in front of people I dislike. I can wear a skirt in front of people I trust, I can wear a skirt in front of strangers, I wear one in front of my dad. What I really struggle with is non skirt wearing friends (Kith). I just can't do it, I don't really know why.