A couple of weeks ago I had an interview at work about my skirt wearing. At work there was a e-learning about unconscious bias. I discussed with HR that maybe the situation that I wear a skirt to work since 2022 maybe an idea to use for that if they want to do more with that. And so the interview came. Today it has been released per e-mail to all the colleagues (about 15 000) in the Netherlands . At my sub-department only works about 70......
So below the English version of the interview, I only hide the last names of people involved. Curious about your reaction
Because of the limitations of the files which can be uploaded to the forum (max. 768kb with max size of 399x799 pixels) I needed to resize the picture very much and split it into 2 pictures, but even than it is not readable anymore, so that's why I copied the text from the interview here below:
Welcome back, dear readers!
You may have seen the video with our MT members on the importance of psychological safety. And hopefully you have also followed the e-learning on Unconscious Bias. However, nothing makes it clearer what this means in practice than a personal story, in this case that of Wim. We found it so inspiring that we are dedicating this issue entirely to it.
We would like to thank Wim very much for his openness and his willingness and trust to share this story with us.
It is a good example of the impact each of us can have on others and the atmosphere we create around us. It’s not so much about grand gestures or policies, but more about the simple acts of being there for each other, listening openly and accepting each other for who we are.
Consider this: what biases do you hold as you read this article, and how do they corresponds with the reality? We hope that each of us takes a moment to reflect on ourselves and think how we can continue creating inclusive and open environment here at Stork.
In Wim’s own words: “I hope my story helps other colleagues. That they feel supported and that they know there is room at Stork to be yourself.”
If you haven’t yet taken the Unconscious Bias e-learning, please do so! You’ll receive valuable tips that will help you to reduce your hidden biases.
Would you like to tell your story yourself? Or do you know a colleague with a special story? Let us know and we’ll work with you or that colleague to see how we can share this story.
WIM WEARS A SKIRT
“I’M GLAD I CAN BE SO OPEN ABOUT IT NOW.”
“During a meeting of AMT colleagues I got into a conversation with a colleague. It went very pleasantly and I then confided in her that I like to wear a skirt. When she asked me if I would also like to come to work that way, I answered “Yes”. At the same time I saw barriers. How would colleagues react? Most colleagues are men. Would they accept this? And what would customers say?
The colleague I had confided in then suggested that she would send an e-mail to Jan [AMT director- editor’s ] telling him that she had spoken to a colleague who would like to come to the office in a skirt. “How would you feel about that?” she asked Jan. His response was very nice. For Jan, it was not a problem. However, he could not vouch for the reactions of colleagues. That was reason enough for me to make the move.
At a subsequent AMT meeting, I wore a skirt. I was really nervous, of course. The colleague I had confided in had meanwhile left Stork but Eva [AMT secretary-editor’s] helped me. Only Jan and Eva knew I was planning this, for the others it was completely new. Together with Eva I walked into the room and did as I always do. Colleagues approached me and started asking questions. “How about that? Why?” They were very open. I can imagine it’s an unusual sight at first but I’m always happy when people ask me about it.
For men today it may be strange to wear a skirt but a hundred years ago it was not a custom for women to wear pants because that was something reserved for men. So the norm can shift. What matters is that everyone should be able to wear what they want. For me, though, the skirt should be as cool as possible. So I don’t wear floral skirts but denim skirts. I have about twenty of them. You also won’t see me wearing makeup or high heels and I always choose cool shoes like Dr. Martens.
Right after that AMT meeting, where I wore a skirt for the first time, I had to go to the Stork office in Groningen. Even there I first consulted with Harnold [Director Solution Center Groningen] He also had no problem with it and since then I also go to Groningen in a skirt.
Look, you always have people who form their own opinion, I sometimes feel that too when I walk down the street in Groningen, for example. A group of young people shout “Hey, gay!”. For me, that goes in one ear and out the other. First of all, I am not gay and secondly, how can you recognize gay people by a skirt? That doesn’t make any sense. Or they yell “transvestite!” How? I then think. Do I walk that way, with high heels, makeup and a wig? Do I walk around looking feminine? I’m wearing a different piece of clothing, that’s all. If you look at other cultures, there it’s very normal for men to wear skirts. In Scotland and Asia for example. If it’s so accepted there, why couldn’t I do it here?
In 2023, there was a meeting at Stork titled Embracing Change. I then asked if I could tell something about the way I dress in order to eliminate prejudice and biases. I could show those who did not dare to talk to me what it really meant to me. Stork agreed and I then made a presentation, especially with lots of pictures. Photos of the catwalk, photos of all kinds of famous people and from various cultures. I wanted to demonstrate that it is much more common for men to wear skirts in many more places.
I am just a man and I remain a man. So it’s not about a transformation. A skirt is just a garment that I feel comfortable wearing and that’s why I do it. So at work, I almost always wear a skirt these days. I feel like most of my colleagues are used to it by now. In the beginning I got a lot of questions- now it is less. During a New Year’s drink a colleague came up to me and said “Gee, you look different but why not?” In my youth, I looked like a punk. That was also different from most others. I don’t go like that to clients yet, I want to discuss that with Jan first. You don’t know how customers will react. We don’t want a client to think “What the hell is this?” and lose a job because of it. I went to one customer wearing a skirt, but I had a former colleague there, who knew about it, so that was easier.
I haven’t had any negative reactions at Stork. Maybe there are but I don’t notice any. I hope colleagues will come to me if they have questions and not just make a prejudice. I recently thanked my AMT colleagues for the way they took care of me and how they treated me. It makes me happy that they are so open about it. By the way, I also catch myself in unconscious biases. I was standing in the H&M elevator in Groningen, together with a twenty years old saleswoman. She stood a bit hunched over, with her arms crossed and looked at me from head to toe. “Well, she must have something negative in mind”, I thought, but then a smile broke through on her face as she said:
How super cool you look! I wish more men dressed like that!
I was fortunate that the colleague I had confided in took action. Otherwise, I might still be walking around here in pants. Of course, it would be absolutely wonderful if I didn’t need such a colleague and had started discussing this on my own. I hope this interview helps others. Others who perhaps do not yet dare to be fully themselves at work. That they know that at Stork you can be who you are, that you are accepted and that it is possible.
Some time ago, I started Rokvoormannen.nl, a site for men who like to wear skirts. Many men only do so in domestic settings sometimes even without their wives knowing. It would be nice if I could help those men. That I can convince them to take the step to go in public with it. On that site, for example, I share photos of myself in Athens wearing a skirt with colleagues. I have gotten a lot of nice reactions and I hope to inspire others a little.
I don’t see myself as a pioneer because I think that means being one of the first. If I can help people by going public with it, that’s very nice. If nobody did that, it would never happen. Just as there were once women who dared to venture out in pants for the first time. That was also very difficult in the beginning. The fact that I can walk in a skirt now gives me a sense of freedom. I hope that my story helps other colleagues. That they feel supported and know that at Stork there is room to be yourself. I’m glad I can be so open about it now!”
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