Skort Question

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
STEVIE
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Re: Skort Question

Post by STEVIE »

Stu wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:03 pm OK, follow this line:
I hear what both, you and Barleymaker are saying.
One point I'd agree with you on is that the change will arise from the kids.
If boys, say 6 or so adopted skorts as schoolwear and were able to maintain it into the secondary years then maybe as young men, evolve into wearing skirts. In my time, it was a 3 piece suit for the disco on a Saturday night.
For my money, a much better scenario than seeing "kilts" as the entry level skirts for men.
I think "evolution" is likely the best word here, it will be a long, slow and probably painful process.

Stu wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:03 pm PROBLEM:
I can't buy skirts for men or even unisex skirts from my local store and I can't wear skirts without people thinking I am making some kind of statement about my gender identity. This is a major fashion taboo that we haven't yet broken.
SOLUTION:
Choose whose thoughts and opinions you value, as for anyone else, learn not to give a damn.
Your motives belong to you and no one else.

Steve.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Coder »

STEVIE wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:15 pm
Stu wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:03 pm PROBLEM:
I can't buy skirts for men or even unisex skirts from my local store and I can't wear skirts without people thinking I am making some kind of statement about my gender identity. This is a major fashion taboo that we haven't yet broken.
SOLUTION:
Choose whose thoughts and opinions you value, as for anyone else, learn not to give a damn.
Your motives belong to you and no one else.
Yep! Last Friday I was walking briefly (happened by chance) with one colleague and a new employee, and he referred to me as a he and used male pronouns. It was good to hear him talk like that, and the new person def did a look down and might have been confused, would love to know if she asked or not. I presume, at least in my case, because I've never listed my pronouns, changed my name, or did a big announcement at a staff meeting that he's just rolling with it.

As for the general public? What does it matter? It doesn't. I'm still not 100% confident, but I'm a heck of a lot further along, and they can think all that they want to think.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Midas »

I don’t want to buy a skirt marketed exclusively towards men. Like all other ‘male’ clothes it will be over engineered, making it heavy and cumbersome.

My preference is to wear a dress and I do so more or less all the time. At no time have I felt as if my masculinity was in doubt either to me or anyone else. I have not had a bad reaction and as far as I am aware everyone has dealt with me as ever they did. Nobody has ever become flustered by my apparel or sought to establish my pronouns. The nearest thing to harassment was a wasp last week taking a fancy to the flowers on my dress.

Like Stevie I think our true point is that men can wear what they want, irrespective of the fact that it may have been made with women in mind. The missed opportunity for the fashion industry is to sell everything to everyone. My annual spend on clothes is much higher now than it used to be before I started wearing skirts and dresses.
STEVIE
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Re: Skort Question

Post by STEVIE »

Midas wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:10 pm My annual spend on clothes is much higher now than it used to be before I started wearing skirts and dresses.
Thanks Midas,
Not that I am in the least bit perturbed but that is precisely why the retailers won't target men for skirts and dresses, oh the irony!
They just don't have to because most men in our situation are born aisle crossers anyway and not lured by labels or deterred by the norms foisted upon us.
In the case of school skorts, the target is easy pre-pubescent boys. No alteration to production as not a lot of extra space needed in certain areas.
I'd wager the labels on the shorts and skorts don't specify boy/girl either under a certain age bracket.
The skorts never will on the assumption of girls only but getting them demanded by boys and bought by parents will take clever marketing.
As I said evolutionary time.
Steve.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by STEVIE »

......and here is a kid after my own heart, our future rests with such as this little Wee Free Man:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/fam ... e286&ei=20

Steve.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Barleymower »

STEVIE wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:02 am ......and here is a kid after my own heart, our future rests with such as this little Wee Free Man:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/fam ... e286&ei=20

Steve.
I've been vocal about the skort question. I still say that a girls skirt with shorts bonded in won't work with school boys. It's mostly the look. The skort looks like a girls skirt and that's too much girl for most boys to bear. They might as well wear the pinafore dress sported by the wee man.
I'm all for it but how do you spread the word that it's ok and cool? There could be a way to get this into the mainstream. That is the utilikilt. I think there is enough kudos with perceived kilts for boys to wear them. The utilikilt could be manufactured with shorts sewn in that are made for boys in the 'tackle' dept.
Also a kilt (like) object could get appreciative looks from the girls. The boy wearing one could become a star overnight. If that happened ....
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Modoc »

Two of the best things about wearing skirts and dresses for me are the of course the unrestricted breeze, especially with minimal underwear, and the ease of using toilet facilities. Not having to deal with belts and snaps and snaps and zippers and such is a huge benefit. Having raised a couple of sons I dont see where adding sewed in shorts to a skirt would help at all when it's time to go.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Stu »

So a boy in Scotland has challenged the convention that males can only wear trousers. Hopefully, others will see that and do the same.Surely my idea about skorts also contributes to that, or it could if enough people show interest in it. I mentioned AI - just look at what Bard AI or ClaudeAI say about skorts being suitable for both sexes - and then ask why manufacturers and retailers are treating them as exclusively for females.

My point is that expecting males to suddenly start wearing skirts is a big leap. We have to break the monopoly on trousers and skorts offer a stepping stone towards that.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Midas »

STEVIE wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:56 pm
Midas wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:10 pm My annual spend on clothes is much higher now than it used to be before I started wearing skirts and dresses.
Thanks Midas,
Not that I am in the least bit perturbed but that is precisely why the retailers won't target men for skirts and dresses, oh the irony!
They just don't have to because most men in our situation are born aisle crossers anyway and not lured by labels or deterred by the norms foisted upon us.
In the case of school skorts, the target is easy pre-pubescent boys. No alteration to production as not a lot of extra space needed in certain areas.
I'd wager the labels on the shorts and skorts don't specify boy/girl either under a certain age bracket.
The skorts never will on the assumption of girls only but getting them demanded by boys and bought by parents will take clever marketing.
As I said evolutionary time.
Steve.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a retailer took a random selection of skirts and dresses and simply placed them with the suits and trousers in the menswear section.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by STEVIE »

Stu wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:54 pm My point is that expecting males to suddenly start wearing skirts is a big leap. We have to break the monopoly on trousers and skorts offer a stepping stone towards that.
Midas wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:22 pm It would be interesting to see what would happen if a retailer took a random selection of skirts and dresses and simply placed them with the suits and trousers in the menswear section.
We are looking at 2 very distinct patterns of demand.
The skort as school uniform for boys will depend on boys making the demand of their parents.
The purchase is in the hands of the parents so, unless the boys buy their own?
Just dump some skirts among Menswear, a cunning plan worthy of Baldrick methinks.
The question is the pattern of male shopping habits, lone, accompanied or actually female?
Who would buy the "misplaced" skirts?
Female on behalf of a male, especially a partner or relation, most unlikely.
Accompanied male, maybe, especially if a stunt, joke or fancy dress party is in the scenario.
The lone male is fairly likely, but also a probable aisle crosser in any case.
Finally a female for herself, as we already know, woman have no scruples when it comes to the source of their clothes.
Steve
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Re: Skort Question

Post by mishawakaskirt »

Where's the articles on the female students adopting the trousers uniform? I'm sure there are more girls adopting the trousers. Where is the articles and fanfare for them?

"Girl,7, wears boys clothes to class is hailed "inspirational" by friends."

Where is it.? Show me one article. :?
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Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by big_daddy_thong »

I'm a big fan of skorts in place of regular shorts. I have a collection of golf, tennis, hiking and yoga skorts that I wear for a recreational sports activities.
Sometimes instead of leggings for yoga class when it is super hot in the summer, I'll wear skorts and crop top. I have found that wearing skorts on my bike when I'm on the trial give me a fashion option that is still functional for riding. I also love wearing skorts for walks and running errands during the weekend after my sports outings.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by Barleymower »

STEVIE wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:17 am
Stu wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:54 pm My point is that expecting males to suddenly start wearing skirts is a big leap. We have to break the monopoly on trousers and skorts offer a stepping stone towards that.
Midas wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:22 pm It would be interesting to see what would happen if a retailer took a random selection of skirts and dresses and simply placed them with the suits and trousers in the menswear section.
We are looking at 2 very distinct patterns of demand.
The skort as school uniform for boys will depend on boys making the demand of their parents.
The purchase is in the hands of the parents so, unless the boys buy their own?
Just dump some skirts among Menswear, a cunning plan worthy of Baldrick methinks.
The question is the pattern of male shopping habits, lone, accompanied or actually female?
Who would buy the "misplaced" skirts?
Female on behalf of a male, especially a partner or relation, most unlikely.
Accompanied male, maybe, especially if a stunt, joke or fancy dress party is in the scenario.
The lone male is fairly likely, but also a probable aisle crosser in any case.
Finally a female for herself, as we already know, woman have no scruples when it comes to the source of their clothes.
Steve
Stevie my question seems to be lost in the ether. What about a skort kilt? Would that work?
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Re: Skort Question

Post by STEVIE »

Barleymower wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:14 pm Stevie my question seems to be lost in the ether. What about a skort kilt? Would that work?
Apologies BM,
My honest answer has to be I don't know.
My very jaundiced view of kilts is well publicised already and I do doubt that they'd work in Scotland.
My neighbour's 11 year old daughter attends a local private school and her uniform is a kilted skirt.
She told me the boys are allowed to wear a kilt but they choose not to and we all know why, don't we?
The trouser option for girls starts at secondary, can't wait is her opinion.
The Scots kid who has recently been reported as wearing girl uniform and for now, it's ok because he is 7.
Try it aged 13 and he will have to be able to look after himself.
Who knows, in 6 years skirts of any form may be de rigueur for boys and men, evolution and time will tell.
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Re: Skort Question

Post by STEVIE »

mishawakaskirt wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 2:08 pm "Girl,7, wears boys clothes to class is hailed "inspirational" by friends."
Not quite hailed as inspirational, but I found this:

"Did anyone ever publicly protest their school dress code? No doubt some students did. There was one case in 1942 when Abraham Lincoln High School (Brooklyn, New York) student Beverly Bernstein protested her school’s dress code by wearing slacks and a sweater to school one day. She was promptly suspended, which resulted in other girls carrying on with the protest the next day and wearing slacks in solidarity."
The point is that the females fought for it and won, now it is taken for granted.
Girls, when I was 7 never wore trousers in school. We had one Asian girl whose family had to fight for her to be allowed to keep her legs covered.
That was late 1960s Scotland.

Steve
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