Dear God.... (glad I'm going AWOL next week)

[moonshadow]

https://www.newsweek.com/topless-trans- ... ge-1806151

So glad I'm going to be in the mountains far away from cell service for 9 days next week....

God have mercy on us, and I pray there will be a country to return to....

It has been wisely written "all things in moderation".

I'm willing to concede, some are getting intoxicated on "PRIDE". It's turning into a cult.... a religion, and thus, perhaps time to be separated from state. The only thing separating it from cultish region at this point is a lack of a defined "leader"...

Planting a progress flag between two American flags is courting trouble, and even I would agree, it is disrespectful. I do not endorse this.

[crfriend]

Planting a progress flag between two American flags is courting trouble, and even I would agree, it is disrespectful. I do not endorse this.

A "progress" flag? There haven't been any Progressives in the US since the days of Theodore Roosevelt.

What I'm worried about is the inevitable backlash from the 90% of the population that doesn't identify with the "PRIDE" movement, and some of those 90% are the simplest of all which translates into violent. It's coming, and it's just a question of when and how brutal it'll be. I'm worried that I'll be caught up in it -- even though I do not so identify.

I'm also awash in the propaganda at work, and have recently started just auto-binning anything with the "PRIDE" keyword in it. Worse still, it's warping the lexicon. For instance, I can no longer take pride in my achievements lest somebody get the wrong idea. I must sow state that "I'm proud of my deeds and actions over the years."

The madness needs to stop.

[moonshadow]

What I'm worried about is the inevitable backlash from the 90% of the population that doesn't identify with the "PRIDE" movement, and some of those 90% are the simplest of all which translates into violent. It's coming, and it's just a question of when and how brutal it'll be.

That's my primary concern as well. The spectacle at the White House was too far. There will be substantial backlash, and perhaps there does need to be a "come to Jesus" moment (no pun intended) regarding this.

I don't have a problem with the "PRIDE" matter, but it doesn't NOT represent America in its entirety, and the flag has no place between two American flags.

Foul move.

And Biden's speech is just downright cringey and creepy. Telling transgender women they they are some of the bravest people he's ever met suggest to be that we need more "Commander in Cheif's" serving active duty military service.

It was an insult to so much of what Americans stand for. I dread the fallout, and hope I can somehow distance myself from it.

The madness needs to stop.

In.... deed!

[Myopic Bookworm]

The spectacle at the White House was too far.

It was an insult to so much of what Americans stand for.

As a non-American, it didn't strike me as notably more offensive to American values than what Trump's insurrectionists got up to inside the Capitol (and I am sure some of them were very fine people).

I wouldn't be surprised if there were topless women at the White House under the previous administration: just not on camera.

I think the whole Pride extravaganza-party-time will die down after a couple of years, if only the general populace can get used to the fact that some people are gay or trans or whatever, and it doesn't have to affect other people in any serious way.

[bikesaurus]

There's a lot for me to unpack and process here. I watched the president's speech, and I thought it was fine. I don't really take much issue with it. I certainly didn't find it very cringe.

I do think the TikTok video that is the subject of the Newsweek article is specifically edited to cause outrage. It's cringe and completely awful.

And Biden's speech is just downright cringey and creepy. Telling transgender women they they are some of the bravest people he's ever met suggest to be that we need more "Commander in Cheif's" serving active duty military service.

This particular quote by the president isn't targeted specifically to transgender women, rather the LGBTQ+ community as a whole. Here's the transcript of the speech and here's a video of the event if you wish to bring more context to it.

I'm a bisexual man. I spent a very long time hiding my attraction to other men and presenting myself as a straight man out of fear. Matthew Shepard was brutally murdered right before my 13th birthday and it scared me. I never let myself date men because of that fear. Society has come a long way since then, but I do think it still takes courage. I do think it's fair for the president to call out the courage needed to be an open queer person.

I also think it's "cringe" for the commander in chief to call queer folks some of the bravest people he knows, when you would think he should reserve that for members of the military that perform brave acts in the name of our country every day. Regardless of whether or not I agree with the actions of our military, I do think its members probably deserve to be some of the bravest people the president knows.

Also, I agree with everyone else when y'all say a man wearing a skirt should not be placed in the queer bucket for simply wearing a skirt. There is nothing inherent about skirts that imply any sort of sexuality or gender identity.

Now, on the topic of pride month itself, I get why some of y'all are turned off by it. It get very loud and hard to avoid. Normally, I'd give the advice to just ignore it if it bothers you, but this year's celebrations have become particularly loud and difficult to ignore. In deference to rule #2 of this forum, I'll not expand beyond that.

I'm also awash in the propaganda at work, and have recently started just auto-binning anything with the "PRIDE" keyword in it. Worse still, it's warping the lexicon. For instance, I can no longer take pride in my achievements lest somebody get the wrong idea. I must sow state that "I'm proud of my deeds and actions over the years."

I'm sorry you're facing this at work. I don't like how context surrounding the use of words gets ignored by some folks. You should be able to take pride in your work and it not be conflated with LGBTQ+ pride. Anecdotally, this is not my experience, so I hope it's not something widespread. It seems like this conflation is rather ill-informed, even if being done by people that have good intentions.

[STEVIE]

As a non-American, it didn't strike me as notably more offensive to American values than what Trump's insurrectionists got up to inside the Capitol (and I am sure some of them were very fine people).

MB,
As a non-American too, I don't get the things that Americans find to be offensive about.
If someone chose to "desecrate" one of our national emblems, I might question their mentality but offended, I rather doubt it.
However, some of our cousins from across the pond would voice their offence with a gun and that really bewilders me.
And now the small functioning area of my brain hurts.
Steve

[moonshadow]

As a non-American, it didn't strike me as notably more offensive to American values than what Trump's insurrectionists got up to inside the Capitol (and I am sure some of them were very fine people).

MB,
As a non-American too, I don't get the things that Americans find to be offensive about.
If someone chose to "desecrate" one of our national emblems, I might question their mentality but offended, I rather doubt it.
However, some of our cousins from across the pond would voice their offence with a gun and that really bewilders me.
And now the small functioning area of my brain hurts.
Steve

I understand what you two are saying, but you also need to understand, the "red white and blue" patriotism is something deeply baked into American culture. It's part of our national identity, it makes us who we are.

I understand that this is a foreign notion to outsiders, but then again, America... technically is a foreign nation to outsiders.

Please understand, I'm not trying to be condescending, but patriotism is something deeply sacred for many of us here... myself included, I may not get militant about it like some do, but I do believe in respect for our institutions and American symbols.

Placing the rainbow progress flag front and center between two American flags was a bad move, and there will be hell to pay.

Americans are very... well... proud. But a different kind of proud. It's hard to explain, but its not all a bad thing, it just comes down to boundaries and respect.

[STEVIE]

Americans are very... well... proud. But a different kind of proud.

I see what you are saying Moon and actually so are the Scots.
Our "pride" is just a tad less defined but lies wrapped in that "otherness".
The vast amount of Americans who claim validly, or otherwise to have Scottish ancestry may very well be a testament to that.
Goddamit, you get it from us, sorry man!
Steve.

[moonshadow]

The vast amount of Americans who claim validly, or otherwise to have Scottish ancestry may very well be a testament to that.
Goddamit, you get it from us, sorry man!

Ha!

Noted!

[Faldaguy]

[

As a non-American, it didn't strike me as notably more offensive to American values than what Trump's insurrectionists got up to inside the Capitol (and I am sure some of them were very fine people).

MB,
As a non-American too, I don't get the things that Americans find to be offensive about.
If someone chose to "desecrate" one of our national emblems, I might question their mentality but offended, I rather doubt it.
However, some of our cousins from across the pond would voice their offence with a gun and that really bewilders me.
And now the small functioning area of my brain hurts.
Steve

I understand what you two are saying, but you also need to understand, the "red white and blue" patriotism is something deeply baked into American culture. It's part of our national identity, it makes us who we are.

I understand that this is a foreign notion to outsiders, but then again, America... technically is a foreign nation to outsiders.

Please understand, I'm not trying to be condescending, but patriotism is something deeply sacred for many of us here... myself included, I may not get militant about it like some do, but I do believe in respect for our institutions and American symbols.

This exchange of perceptions is useful dialog. For me, as a native born US Citizen, I too was brought up in the "red, white and blue...deeply baked into American culture" but I've also spent enough years living in other countries to come to understand those feeling arise from a very myopic and ethnocentric life, especially our managed media and the relatively low level of personal first-hand international exposure. This is not unique to the USA though it is an inhibiting trait that gives us a skewed view of our value, and place in the world. I laud the underlying values and objectives of the US formation and institutions as they were original envisioned; but find our historical blindness and self-centered approach to growth of the human spirit is a significant impediment to healthy development. Brandishing any one flag above all others is not healthy -- there is plenty of pride, patriotism, or honor to go around. Sharing and cooperation offer more hope than battles.

I've appended three links: Self-centered diplomacy; a view of the National Institute for Health on Gender differences (male warrior hypothesis), and Game Theory in the War Room, just to stimulate those maybe jaded synapses! They are not meant to be an opinion or endorsement, just thought provoking.


https://uscpublicdiplomacy.org/blog/cau ... diplomacy

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17362372/

https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/arti ... s-dilemma/

[pelmut]

Having had ruthless competition bashed into me from a young age as the only way to behave, it came as a huge shock in my late 20s when I was comparing school experiences with a female colleague and suddenly realised that she had achieved much more than me by co-operation.  It turned my world upside down as the truth dawned that the chief cause of the difference in our upbringing was due to our sexes being treated differently.  

The more I learned about this, the more I hated my upbringing.  I had never liked competitive sports and would have done a lot better at school if I had been treated the way girls were.  That was the beginning of the pathway that led me towards eventually realising, with the help of so many other clues, that I was transgender.


I realise there are others here who, at least in part, feel the same way as I did but I would not wish to imply any of them are transgender.  There was a lot more to it in my case.

[Elisabetta]

Americans are very... well... proud. But a different kind of proud.

I see what you are saying Moon and actually so are the Scots.
Our "pride" is just a tad less defined but lies wrapped in that "otherness".
The vast amount of Americans who claim validly, or otherwise to have Scottish ancestry may very well be a testament to that.
Goddamit, you get it from us, sorry man! <---
Steve.

[Uncle Al]

Moon & Elisabetta;

In going AWOL next week, I fervently hope you are safe and secure, where ever your travels
take you. De-stressing is great for the body and soul. My main point is that the two of you - -
HAVE FUN

Be Safe and Stay Well, my friends

Uncle Al

[Elisabetta]

Moon & Elisabetta;

In going AWOL next week, I fervently hope you are safe and secure, where ever your travels
take you. De-stressing is great for the body and soul. My main point is that the two of you - -
HAVE FUN

Be Safe and Stay Well, my friends

Uncle Al

I'm leaving the forums for vacation and not sure what else. Have great week U.A.

[Bertino56]

@Moonshadow, if you want to see "Pride," come to San Francisco.
It's not any sort of cult, but community! A very large, and very diverse community.
It's a parade and gathering in celebration of diversity. Every "special interest" with respect to clothing,
and personal style, is welcome, and present in abundance. Nobody is ridiculed or rejected.
It has been the second largest annual event in California. But in recent years, it may have become
even bigger than Rose Bowl. (Third biggest is Folsom Street, but that's a whole 'nother story!)