A collection of articles - somewhat related

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
rivegauche
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by rivegauche »

Having also been a teacher, I always took a relaxed view on uniform. Young people are always going to explore their status with the other gender, and school is where they have most of their interactions. Authority putting a focus on appearance instead of education is always going to have an uphill struggle. I heard of one private boarding school that banned Creamola Foam (a flavoured fizzy drink that came in powdered form). The result was that rebellion went into having covert Creamola Foam. I have no idea of they had fewer problems with smoking and drugs as a result of this but it is an interesting idea.

I am with Iggy Pop here. I see nothing shameful about adopting aspects of life usually associated with women. Though men are physically stronger than women I think that in real life women are FAR stronger than men. The people I admire most are women.

Some of the restrictions placed on men are put there by women - especially wives and mothers. There is something wrong with a society that regards it as more manly for men to thump their wives than wear skirts.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by ScotL »

rivegauche wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:37 am There is something wrong with a society that regards it as more manly for men to thump their wives than wear skirts.
Well said.
jamie001
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by jamie001 »

rivegauche wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:37 am Having also been a teacher, I always took a relaxed view on uniform. Young people are always going to explore their status with the other gender, and school is where they have most of their interactions. Authority putting a focus on appearance instead of education is always going to have an uphill struggle. I heard of one private boarding school that banned Creamola Foam (a flavoured fizzy drink that came in powdered form). The result was that rebellion went into having covert Creamola Foam. I have no idea of they had fewer problems with smoking and drugs as a result of this but it is an interesting idea.

I am with Iggy Pop here. I see nothing shameful about adopting aspects of life usually associated with women. Though men are physically stronger than women I think that in real life women are FAR stronger than men. The people I admire most are women.

Some of the restrictions placed on men are put there by women - especially wives and mothers. There is something wrong with a society that regards it as more manly for men to thump their wives than wear skirts.
I agree. Women should be our role models. We should all aspire to be more feminine and the would would be a safer and better place.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by ScotL »

jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:41 am
I agree. Women should be our role models. We should all aspire to be more feminine and the would would be a safer and better place.
Jamie, you’ve been very vocal with your opinion that women are superior to men.

I struggle with the definitions of masculinity and femininity. Which characteristics are truly found only in men or women, respectively.

Given your string opinions, I’m interested to know what characteristics are solely female? In other words, what are the characteristics that you consider feminine and are never found in men?

Note: I am not attacking you. I am very interested in your thoughts about this. So far no one has been able to provide me a list of characteristics that are selectively male or female
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by jamie001 »

ScotL wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 12:12 pm
jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:41 am
I agree. Women should be our role models. We should all aspire to be more feminine and the would would be a safer and better place.
Jamie, you’ve been very vocal with your opinion that women are superior to men.

I struggle with the definitions of masculinity and femininity. Which characteristics are truly found only in men or women, respectively.

Given your string opinions, I’m interested to know what characteristics are solely female? In other words, what are the characteristics that you consider feminine and are never found in men?

Note: I am not attacking you. I am very interested in your thoughts about this. So far no one has been able to provide me a list of characteristics that are selectively male or female
ScottL,

Thank you for your message. I do not believe that the characteristics that I advocate are solely female. They are the characteristics that have been deemed feminine by hundred of years the patriarchy. Any male that displays any of these characteristics is categorized and feminine and unworthy. The root of eliminating these characteristics in men is to create fighting machines that can literary kick any countries' ass in a conflict.

These characteristics include:

Compassion
Softness in mannerisms
Apathy
Talking things out rather than fighting
It's ok not to be the alpha dog
Being nurturing
Liking beautiful things rather than just utilitarian things
Being able to express emotions other than anger, disgust, and hate

and the list goes on and on....

We will never be able to undo the destruction that the patriarchy has done to the male psyche. If we emulate women and strive to become more feminine, we can become complete rather than just war machines of the patriarchy.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by ScotL »

jamie001 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 1:56 am
and the list goes on and on....

We will never be able to undo the destruction that the patriarchy has done to the male psyche. If we emulate women and strive to become more feminine, we can become complete rather than just war machines of the patriarchy.
Here’s my problem with your list. None of those characteristics are inherently or solely feminine.
jamie001
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by jamie001 »

Scott,

I believe that you missed my point. You are correct that none of those characteristics are inherently feminine, but they have been socialized and beaten out of men for generations by the patriarchy, while women are encouraged to embrace those characteristics so now those characteristics are considered feminine.

Does that explanation make more sense? Boys and men are still being raised to be war machines. China recently made the statement that Chinese boys need to “toughen-up” and stop listening to and idolizing K-POP music for this very reason. The characteristics that I mentioned will render a soldier ineffective in battle. I would not be an effective soldier because I don’t believe in killing to settle land or other disputes, and I have too much compassion for my adversaries.
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by Fred in Skirts »

jamie001 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 5:30 am The characteristics that I mentioned will render a soldier ineffective in battle. I would not be an effective soldier because I don’t believe in killing to settle land or other disputes, and I have too much compassion for my adversaries.
Jamie, I can tell you have never been shot at! Because if you had you would not be able to make the statement you did. Once you have been sent to face an enemy in battle and he starts shooting at you, I do believe you would be trying to kill him before he killed you. No matter how much compassion you have for your fellow man.
Just my opinion here, not a personal attack on you.
I have faced the enemy and he is us!!
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
Always be yourself because the people that matter don’t mind and the ones that mind don’t matter.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by rode_kater »

Fred in Skirts wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 8:29 pm Jamie, I can tell you have never been shot at! Because if you had you would not be able to make the statement you did. Once you have been sent to face an enemy in battle and he starts shooting at you, I do believe you would be trying to kill him before he killed you. No matter how much compassion you have for your fellow man.
That's an interesting one. I have a book "On killing" that actually goes into the research behind all this. Most humans do have an innate block against killing other humans. Most of the time this can be overcome with training, but it seems that for around 10% of the population no amount to training overcomes this and they really would rather die than kill someone else. True pacifists. Obviously drafting these people into the army is a waste of time (hence the research).

I think I'm in this category, but you only really know if the situation arises. And frankly I hope it doesn't.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by ScotL »

jamie001 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 5:30 am Scott,

I believe that you missed my point. You are correct that none of those characteristics are inherently feminine, but they have been socialized and beaten out of men for generations by the patriarchy, while women are encouraged to embrace those characteristics so now those characteristics are considered feminine.

Does that explanation make more sense? Boys and men are still being raised to be war machines. China recently made the statement that Chinese boys need to “toughen-up” and stop listening to and idolizing K-POP music for this very reason. The characteristics that I mentioned will render a soldier ineffective in battle. I would not be an effective soldier because I don’t believe in killing to settle land or other disputes, and I have too much compassion for my adversaries.
Not really. Yes, traditional gender norms have this black/white differentiation. But real life doesn’t. I’ve know women tougher than most men and men more nurturing than most women.

I remain unable to define what masculinity or femininity truly mean.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by ScotL »

Fred in Skirts wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 8:29 pm
jamie001 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 5:30 am The characteristics that I mentioned will render a soldier ineffective in battle. I would not be an effective soldier because I don’t believe in killing to settle land or other disputes, and I have too much compassion for my adversaries.
Jamie, I can tell you have never been shot at! Because if you had you would not be able to make the statement you did. Once you have been sent to face an enemy in battle and he starts shooting at you, I do believe you would be trying to kill him before he killed you. No matter how much compassion you have for your fellow man.
Just my opinion here, not a personal attack on you.
I have faced the enemy and he is us!!
I don’t know which war you were a soldier in, but I’ve only been shot at once. Not in war and completely by accident. Scared us stupid and I believe my friends and I were too scared to piss ourselves. I don’t think anyone can state what we would do if another shot at us. Not a personal attack, just my opinion.
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Re: A collection of articles - somewhat related

Post by Faldaguy »

Fred in Skirts wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 8:29 pm
jamie001 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 5:30 am The characteristics that I mentioned will render a soldier ineffective in battle. I would not be an effective soldier because I don’t believe in killing to settle land or other disputes, and I have too much compassion for my adversaries.
Jamie, I can tell you have never been shot at! Because if you had you would not be able to make the statement you did. Once you have been sent to face an enemy in battle and he starts shooting at you, I do believe you would be trying to kill him before he killed you. No matter how much compassion you have for your fellow man.
Just my opinion here, not a personal attack on you.
I have faced the enemy and he is us!!
Hola Fred: I hope your readers concentrate on your final line -- the bold red print "I have faced the enemy and he is us!!"

None of us truly know our responses in a given situation, despite training, forethought and 'beliefs' -- especially under pressure. Rather than focus on what our response might be in such dire circumstances, we need to recognize our common humanity and failings (the enemy is us) and seek to avoid the tragedies of the "moment" by considering how we as individuals, countries, and societies have allowed ourselves to create such disasters.

No war ever emerged overnight -- most were many years in the making -- and there were few innocents; though most of the cannon fodder has been too young and without adequate education or experience to know the backstory, so they get duped into believing the claims made by the vested interests that usually try to call upon 'patriotism, God(s), and righteousness as seen from our perspective to justify unleashing massive destruction and murder. You are correct -- we are our own enemy. Most of the responsibility lies not at the hand of the foot soldier pawns but the vested interests that manipulate facts, and spin falsehoods to serve their own greed. I am not saying all wars have been without any justification or provocation, but had we employed equity and knowing ourselves, most could be avoided. Been there; USMC '65-'69.
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