Christmas shopping in John lewis

[Barleymower]

Slightly confusion shop at John Lewis. The website directs you to kids clothes, the site splits in boys and girls then when selecting say "girls" all the the clothing is labelled "kids" and mixes in boys with the girls. On closer examination only girls wear skirts and the boys section is bland.
It's an obvious attempt to degender clothes for kids without actually doing anything.

[Barleymower]

I have complained to JL about the rubbish they are presenting as degendered clothes:

Very confusion shop at John Lewis. The website directs you to kids clothes, the site splits in boys and girls then when selecting say "girls" all the the clothing is labelled "kids" and mixes in boys with the girls. On closer examination only girls wear skirts and the boys section is bland.

If John Lewis is serious about degendering childrens clothes then there should not be Boys/Girls department only kids. If JL is truly serious about degendering childrens clothes, then the site should show boys and girls in skirts and dresses. You should also show girls wearing traditional boy clothing.

It's an obvious attempt to degender clothes for kids without actually doing anything. JL is playing safe with lipservice to the issue. The world is changing and JL has an opportunity to be at the front rather unheard in the crowd.

Let's see what they come back with.

[STEVIE]

Hi BM
I worked for the Partnership for 15 years and they really are arch conservative at heart.
In recent years they have tried to be seen as progressive, modern and innovative.
It's a façade and here is a prediction

Dear Mr D Pest
"Thank you very much for your comments regarding our Childrenswear offer. We constantly monitor and review current trends to ensure that all our products meet the high standards which our valued customers expect from us.
As a token of our appreciation please find enclosed a voucher for coffee and cake for two, redeemable from any of our Place to Eat Restaurants."

Yours etc
Con Merchant

If you receive a reply that is more definite than that, the coffee and cakes are on me.
A conservative company with a largely conservative customer base. They will not risk alienating one by presenting boys in skirts, they just don't think that way.
You got it right when you said hypocrisy and lip service but I doubt they will be leading the way.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Hi BM
I worked for the Partnership for 15 years and they really are arch conservative at heart.
In recent years they have tried to be seen as progressive, modern and innovative.
It's a façade and here is a prediction

Dear Mr D Pest
"Thank you very much for your comments regarding our Childrenswear offer. We constantly monitor and review current trends to ensure that all our products meet the high standards which our valued customers expect from us.
As a token of our appreciation please find enclosed a voucher for coffee and cake for two, redeemable from any of our Place to Eat Restaurants."

Yours etc
Con Merchant

If you receive a reply that is more definite than that, the coffee and cakes are on me.
A conservative company with a largely conservative customer base. They will not risk alienating one by presenting boys in skirts, they just don't think that way.
You got it right when you said hypocrisy and lip service but I doubt they will be leading the way.
Steve.

Then why did they bother Stevie?
Still I just read an article from 1998 about David Beckhams Sarong and a guy who gave it a go himself back in 1998:

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/GOING+FO ... ckham+skir

Things have moved on. I've been out and about around London and noone minded and noone heckled.

[STEVIE]

They "bothered" because it suits their strategy which is to attempt be seen to be all things to all people.
There are are progressive customers who will be attracted by the "degender" stance and those who would choose to be offended.
John Lewis wants it's cake and to eat it too by attempting to satisfy both and it doesn't work, we know that.
The bit which doesn't gel for me is that they would "appear" to be quite supportive of the rights of self identifying trans people which is causing lots of discussion in Scotland at the moment.
I'd have thought showing boys in skirts would have been a hell of a lot less troublesome.
I have tried on skirts in-store at JL, Next, M&S and quite a few independents too with no trouble at all.
In the grand scheme these days, most people won't care, won't heckle but as shoppers Mr and Mrs Bloggs can be unpredictable.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

I wonder how many times they will reply if I fight them on it?
I wish I was but I'm just not ready for trying on skirts in town. The thought of browsing the skirts in JL with female eyes secrely disapproving fills me with terror.

[STEVIE]

I wonder how many times they will reply if I fight them on it?
I wish I was but I'm just not ready for trying on skirts in town. The thought of browsing the skirts in JL with female eyes secrely disapproving fills me with terror.

They would likely just rehash or repeat the same one, the coffee and cake offer would be a one off.
Eventually, it would go in the eternal pending tray.
Not just JL, but retailers in general know perfectly well that removing the gender aspect from clothing will NOT increase their profits so don't really care. The Adidas stunt will be worth watching. If it succeeds, they will widen the offer, if not, their "gender neutral" items will end up in the clearance bins.
As for "disapproving" females, they generally don't, unless you are the "other half".
The female staff will genuinely like you for adding interest to their day. Shopwork can get damnably boring, I promise.
My personal rule is that if I try on a skirt or dress, I take it to Menswear, my choice.
Besides, I like to see how other men react to their space being invaded by an individual in a skirt.
It can be fun really.
Steve.

[Coder]

The Adidas stunt will be worth watching. If it succeeds, they will widen the offer, if not, their "gender neutral" items will end up in the clearance bins.

I am almost certain it will fail. Partly the inflated price, but also because the skirt was meh. I ordered one (at 50%) and promptly returned it. Perhaps the fabric wasn’t to my liking, perhaps the undefined pleats felt amateurish. Perhaps too costly for the cheap feeling fabric. I know others here liked it, these are just my highly opinionated opinions. I think for anything like that to catch on at a retailer, they have to go all in and assume sales will be slow for a few years. Put “skirts” as a major subcategory in the men’s section. Advertise the heck out of it. With inflation rising, I fear they won’t be as willing to take those risks.

[STEVIE]

I fear they won’t be as willing to take those risks.

No retailer will, and they don't have to.
For every pound or dollar they spend a certain level of return is expected. If that is not achievable then the money goes elsewhere.
Moving skirts and dresses across the aisle will not generate as much extra revenue as some here seem to think.
John Lewis and others know we buy skirts, dresses and lots of other stuff designated for females and are happy at that.
By the way these are my "opinionated opinions" and there is nothing wrong in expressing them.
For Adidas, time will tell.
Steve.

[ScotL]

I am almost certain it will fail. Partly the inflated price, but also because the skirt was meh. I ordered one (at 50%) and promptly returned it. Perhaps the fabric wasn’t to my liking, perhaps the undefined pleats felt amateurish. Perhaps too costly for the cheap feeling fabric. I know others here liked it, these are just my highly opinionated opinions. I think for anything like that to catch on at a retailer, they have to go all in and assume sales will be slow for a few years. Put “skirts” as a major subcategory in the men’s section. Advertise the heck out of it. With inflation rising, I fear they won’t be as willing to take those risks.

What didn’t you like about the skirt material? Cheap? Uncomfortable? To me it seems “sporty” like the shorts I’ve always loved. Curious to hear your opinion

NB: This post is just my opinion and in no way is meant to besmirch anyone who may have posted previously or been quoted in said post. Please do not take offense as none is intended.

[Coder]

What didn’t you like about the skirt material? Cheap? Uncomfortable? To me it seems “sporty” like the shorts I’ve always loved. Curious to hear your opinion

Yes, sporty material - not really my thing. Perhaps it was standard sport material, but it felt like it would tear at any moment. Pleats felt like suggestions.

[ScotL]

What didn’t you like about the skirt material? Cheap? Uncomfortable? To me it seems “sporty” like the shorts I’ve always loved. Curious to hear your opinion

Yes, sporty material - not really my thing. Perhaps it was standard sport material, but it felt like it would tear at any moment. Pleats felt like suggestions.

Thanks, now I feel like I’d like one. Haha

[nzfreestyler]

I've got a few adidas tennis skirts - a pleated skirt and a couple of club skirts. I still play tennis a bit although I must say not yet this summer.
the pleats are very lightweight - which is good so they float and feel barely there - its great for movement and freedom of movement. They are short but with the inner shorts is quite safe.the breeze lifts them etc as well as movement.

the club skirt has ball-shorts whereas my lightweight pleated skirts have inner shorts but not ball shorts. Perhaps its cause they want the flared lines etc not to be distorted by tennis balls? Dunno.

But the skirts are good in the heat and very nice to play in.

[r.m.anderson]

I've got a few adidas tennis skirts - a pleated skirt and a couple of club skirts. I still play tennis a bit although I must say not yet this summer.
the pleats are very lightweight - which is good so they float and feel barely there - its great for movement and freedom of movement. They are short but with the inner shorts is quite safe.the breeze lifts them etc as well as movement.

the club skirt has ball-shorts whereas my lightweight pleated skirts have inner shorts but not ball shorts. Perhaps its cause they want the flared lines etc not to be distorted by tennis balls? Dunno.

But the skirts are good in the heat and very nice to play in.

In the heat of the play having a loose flowing skirt sans constriction from inner under shorts is the best.
Of course it is recommended suggested and some tennis circles required that some under garments be
attired to further keep the mystery of what men wear under theirs kilts skirts whatever - - - LOL !
In the heat of the play I find it amusing to wear something of contrast to show my disdain for
restrictive dress codes (Tennis in White) - modesty always being a prime factor.
While playing tennis it is most helpful to have ready balls to put into play - and yes those ball
pockets do tend to foil the spread of the fluid hem line - do my balls on my hips make me look FAT ? LOL !
My preference is for micro mini pleats (half inch) and like the kilt motion sets the back field into play.

Skorts in this category are normally a tad shorted in hem length and would be cooler except for
undergarment restriction ! Some skorts of mine have gone through the cooler alteration mode.

Playing in the winter blizzards weather here in the midwest belt - tennis and pickle-ball are played
in the comfort of indoor courts.

Game - Set - Match - enjoy the love of skirts !

And all the best Holiday cheers and wishes to all !

[Coder]

I've got a few adidas tennis skirts - a pleated skirt and a couple of club skirts. I still play tennis a bit although I must say not yet this summer.
the pleats are very lightweight - which is good so they float and feel barely there - its great for movement and freedom of movement. They are short but with the inner shorts is quite safe.the breeze lifts them etc as well as movement.

The unisex skirt they sell does not have a pair of inner shorts - if they had it's possible I'd have kept them. They just seemed too wispy to trust. I also seem to recall the closure felt cheap. For an $80 skirt? Nope. Even at $40, just couldn't stomach the price.