Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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crfriend
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:43 pmIf anything, prior to the Industrial revolution and the modern notions of the capitalist society, my overall understanding of society prior to the industrial revolution is not so much one of masculine vs feminine classes, but rather one of the ruling class vs the peasantry. I understand that during those days, peasants were generally forbidden to wear clothing designed for the ruling class, and thus was generally restricted to boring, dull, and bland clothing. Flamboyance and flair was reserved for the ruling classes only, mostly royalty. It was less a matter of what you carried between your legs, but more a matter of what you carried in your purse, or better yet, what your last name and pedigree was.
That's the way it still is. Nothing's changed, really, in spite of the Industrial Revolution which did a little bit to level the playing field and created what because the "Middle Class". All that progress has now been reversed and we're back to "Landed Gentry" and "peasants". The primary force was simple economics -- as it is now -- although there were "sumptuary laws" for a while that forbade rabble from dressing above their position.
There is no way Rockefeller or J.P. Morgan would have been taken seriously if they wore dresses to the office.
I will bring up J. Edgar Hoover in this context. He was infamous for his crossdressing. [2]
Even people like Jeff Bezos isn't immune, consider the giant penis he designed to ride to the edge of space [0].
Mr. Bezos is likely trying to compensate -- and even then can't achieve insertion [0].




[0] Orbital insertion, that is, although the other one might be a potential candidate as well.
[1] Moon's footnote [0] damned near caused me to choke with laughter.
[2] A standing joke when my father went through college was that each night of drinking started off with a toast: "To J. Edgar Hoover -- our eternal companion."
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Bodycon »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:34 pm I want to add that I think humanity assigning gender to inanimate things can be considered a good thing....It's what makes life interesting, entertaining, and gives life extra value. Without our concepts of gender, we'd just be a punch of hunter-gatherer primates, grunting at each other, living to the ripe old age of 20.
Sorry Moon, this is nonsense. Gender assignation is nothing to do with gender, but is just a patronising expression. A car is a car, a door is a door etc. if it entertains you fair enough, but it doesn't make you any different to a chimpanzee. Any town or city will have 20odd year old's standing around conversing in grunts on any given day, so we have not come far, if at all......
moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:34 pm And it just so happens, that western culture was built upon a particular religion that prizes masculinity
You will find that all (that I know of) cultures are based around masculinity and to an even greater extent in the animal world is where (with the exception of maybe spiders and meerkats) females are subservient. It is the natural order of the planet. I am not some kind of misogynist; it is just that the strongest take power and male is physically stronger than female. Stronger males lead weaker ones etc. Evolve for a few thousand years and humans do not now need to have a subservient gender in order to survive and that is leading to changes in attitudes, which is a good thing, so long as we stop at equality and don't go off in the other direction.

Organised religions are based around a pyramid of power with (insert your chosen god(s)) at the top, then the leaders (insert, pope, prophet, king etc.) and so on down to the proletariat. Based around male dominance, because in those times males were dominant, and all based around controlling populations.

None of this gender / masculinity or religion is of any relevance to skirts, which simply went out of fashion for males, pushed by Victorian Social Etiquette and prudery. As clothes became cheaper even toddler boys were dressed in trousers. Where we are now, we can agree on. Men (for the most part) see skirts as womenswear and won't touch them. I don't give a (insert an expletive of your choice) what people think of my clothes or if they misconceive my gender or sexuality. It simply isn't important to me what people I don't know think of me, or some that I do for that matter.

My thoughts are that the more people who don't give a XXXX about how they are perceived the more skirts on men will be accepted, however I would caveat that by saying that the more outlandish you dress (always a bone of contention, who decides?), the more you are likely to be pigeonholed as a crank and dismissed without garnering any real or tacit acceptance.
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by STEVIE »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:43 pm Of course to be fair, a spaceship shaped like a giant vagina might not be very aerodynamic.
Just to try to inject some humour, in space, it really is the same for all, Borg Cube, Voyager, TARDIS or Vagina, take your pick of craft.
Vacuums just have to be good for something other than lifting the dirt, you know.
In all the chats across the cafe I wonder how often "I am very glad to wear a skirt/dress" or words to that effect appear.
I'd bet that all the downsided opinions appear a hell of a lot more regularly and we are meant to be the positive ones.
I am almost an exact year older than Jeff and I stopped holding back too.
Sorry to have to add that there is nothing being said in this thread that gives rise to optimism either.
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Grok »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:14 pm
Take comfort though, throughout history there have even men who weren't afraid to express femininity, it was only in the last couple of decades that this very expression finally became legal, and in the last few years it became socially tolerated. Not accepted, but tolerated. And that's good enough for me. It's a hell of a time to be alive!

Kilts are an obvious exception to this, but then again I assume we're talking about non-kilt skirts...
Good points. So the sequence would be:

1. Very steep hill to climb.

2. Social tolerance (not acceptance) of those few maverick men who try skirts.

3. Mainstream acceptance of MIS.

I suspect that number 3 is a long ways off. But reaching number 2 is an achievement in itself. :!: :D
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

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Bodycon wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:13 pm
I want to add that I think humanity assigning gender to inanimate things can be considered a good thing....It's what makes life interesting, entertaining, and gives life extra value. Without our concepts of gender, we'd just be a punch of hunter-gatherer primates, grunting at each other, living to the ripe old age of 20.
Sorry Moon, this is nonsense.
To you maybe.

I'm sorry, to call out an opinion of mine, that remains a work in progress, the evolving result of my imperfect understanding of the human condition "nonsense" I found to be very abrupt and rude.

I apologize, I simply do not have the mental capacity to argue with people who know everything.

nonsense
nŏn′sĕns″, -səns
noun

Words or signs having no intelligible meaning.
Subject matter, behavior, or language that is foolish or absurd.
Extravagant foolishness or frivolity.


Disagree with my opinions if you must, but don't call me a fool. I'm not perfect, unlike a lot of people in my company it seems...
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by moonshadow »

STEVIE wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:16 pm Just to try to inject some humour, in space, it really is the same for all, Borg Cube, Voyager, TARDIS or Vagina, take your pick of craft.
Well, a cube certainly isn't a phallic symbol, and trying to insert one into a vaginal opening may be met with some resistance.

However that being said, there is a certain euphemism involving ejecting said cube out the other end...

My understanding it is quite unpleasant.... :lol: :wink:
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:39 pmHowever that being said, there is a certain euphemism involving ejecting said cube out the other end...
Thread drift is one thing, but how did we go from skirts on guys to bricks as excrement?
My understanding it is quite unpleasant.... :lol: :wink:
I'd rather not imagine it.
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Coder »

And for the record, I post articles here not because I believe them, or that “the day is upon us whence skirts shall be worn by all”. I find them encouraging - even if some of the styles are a bit whack, or the conclusions totally wrong (in my opinion).
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:49 pm Thread drift is one thing, but how did we go from skirts on guys to bricks as excrement?
I believe a certain local cowboy may have passed one at the sight of this old boy in a skirt...

:twisted:

Tis all connected my friend! :wink:
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Grok »

Coder wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:41 pm I find them encouraging - even if some of the styles are a bit whack, or the conclusions totally wrong (in my opinion).
Perhaps it would be fruitful if fashion designers were assigned a task, something that would give their efforts a focus.

As they don't seem interested in practicality, perhaps they would be interested in designing skirt suits for men.
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Bodycon »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:36 pm I'm sorry, to call out an opinion of mine, that remains a work in progress, the evolving result of my imperfect understanding of the human condition "nonsense" I found to be very abrupt and rude.

I apologize, I simply do not have the mental capacity to argue with people who know everything.
Well Moon, given your posting history, which is regularly littered with diatribes similar to your response to me, I suppose I should have expected this. It does show you in a certain light (Princess Syndrome would cover it) where, being challenged, lights your touch paper. I'll set your mental capacity aside for the moment, however I believe that only when you understand that you know nothing, then you begin to understand something (some clever person said this, not me).
moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:36 pm Disagree with my opinions if you must, but don't call me a fool. I'm not perfect, unlike a lot of people in my company it seems...
Simply having a tizzy and dismissing my response shows that you have not grown a thick enough skin to engage in a reasoned debate without taking offense at the least thing. Nothing I said was intended as rude; I could pick any word and find several meanings online. Nonsense is a throwaway description of something that doesn't make sense. Your suppositions didn't make sense....(to me....)

I apologise for considering you worthy of a grown up discussion. A mistake I will not repeat.
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by moonshadow »

Bodycon wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:40 pm I apologise for considering you worthy of a grown up discussion. A mistake I will not repeat.
Suits me!
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Elisabetta »

Bodycon wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:40 pm
moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:36 pm I'm sorry, to call out an opinion of mine, that remains a work in progress, the evolving result of my imperfect understanding of the human condition "nonsense" I found to be very abrupt and rude.

I apologize, I simply do not have the mental capacity to argue with people who know everything.
Well Moon, given your posting history, which is regularly littered with diatribes similar to your response to me, I suppose I should have expected this. It does show you in a certain light (Princess Syndrome would cover it) where, being challenged, lights your touch paper. I'll set your mental capacity aside for the moment, however I believe that only when you understand that you know nothing, then you begin to understand something (some clever person said this, not me).
moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:36 pm Disagree with my opinions if you must, but don't call me a fool. I'm not perfect, unlike a lot of people in my company it seems...
Simply having a tizzy and dismissing my response shows that you have not grown a thick enough skin to engage in a reasoned debate without taking offense at the least thing. Nothing I said was intended as rude; I could pick any word and find several meanings online. Nonsense is a throwaway description of something that doesn't make sense. Your suppositions didn't make sense....(to me....)

I apologise for considering you worthy of a grown up discussion. A mistake I will not repeat.
Who in the hell do you think you are bashing my husband? You don't know the kind man he is.You think coming on here insulting him saying he isn't grown for a discussion makes you a big shot? A grown man wouldn't sit here and argue like you're doing in a forum just because my husband expressed himself.It's people like you I question with the real problem not Moon.
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

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crfriend wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:09 pm [1] Moon's footnote [0] damned near caused me to choke with laughter.
Which one?
moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:34 pm [0] Some believe that the God of the Hebrews was without gender and androgynous, others believe that the God was male and female, but that is hotly debated, in fact we may never really know for sure.
or
moonshadow wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:43 pm [0] Of course to be fair, a spaceship shaped like a giant vagina might not be very aerodynamic.
I must say they both made me smile; the first one for ending with such a wonderful understatement, the second; another understatement although once in space, things don't need to be aerodynamic ........ and docking would be easy.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: Vogue: How Men’s Fashion Changed for the Better This Year

Post by Bodycon »

JennC03 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:26 am Who in the hell do you think you are bashing my husband? You don't know the kind man he is.You think coming on here insulting him saying he isn't grown for a discussion makes you a big shot? A grown man wouldn't sit here and argue like you're doing in a forum just because my husband expressed himself.It's people like you I question with the real problem not Moon.
I didn't come on here to insult him, but he took offense anyway; because that is what he does ALL THE TIME!

a GROWN MAN wouldn't sit there constantly having a Tizzy every time someone disagrees with him, but would put forward reasons why their argument is correct and yours is wrong. He is incapable of that. I take no pleasure from saying that, but having researched the forum and the many similar posts, that is the only conclusion to come to.

I also note that you spring to his defence, each time, without questioning whether he is right or wrong, which is partly admirable and partly sad.

The blame someone else culture (for you are never wrong) is wearing rather thin....
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