A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

[john62]

What is a nab?

John

[denimini]

What is a nab?

John

Yes, as an Aussie I had to look that one up. Apparently a small pack of biscuits (not suitable for peanut allergics) originally made by Nabisco (hence the name).

[Fred in Skirts]

What is a nab?
John

Yes, as an Aussie I had to look that one up. Apparently a small pack of biscuits (not suitable for peanut allergics) originally made by Nabisco (hence the name).

Actually they are cheese crackers with a peanut butter filling. Most of the time they are refereed to as crackers.
Nabisco has a huge line of these types of crackers and a few lines of cookies (0) filled with different types of fillings. They are used by moms in children's school lunches as well as hubbies work lunch pail.
They are quite good, I used to eat a lot of them when I was a member of the work force but now that I am retired I don't eat nearly as many. Other brands are as good or better, I like the Lance brand of snack crackers even better than the one baked by Nabisco.

If you can find them where you live try them they are very good at taking the edge of of hunger.

(0) Biscuits to you britts...

[moonshadow]

What is a nab?

John

It's a southern thang...

(Fred and Anthony got it right, note Fred (from South Carolina) already knew...)

[moonshadow]

Just stopped at one of my morning watering holes to get a soda...

Clerk says "are you just getting the drink?"

"Yeah" I replied.

"Don't worry about it man, you're good.."

Woohoo! A good way to start the day! Hot damn!

[Fred in Skirts]

Just stopped at one of my morning watering holes to get a soda...

Clerk says "are you just getting the drink?"

"Yeah" I replied.

"Don't worry about it man, you're good.."

Woohoo! A good way to start the day! Hot damn!

A free drink is always a good start to any day!!!
I hope you were very verbose in thanking him/her.

[moonshadow]

*facepalm*

I just happened again, stopped off to pick up a bite for supper.

Total came to $15.95

I handed her $21

She takes it... looks at it...

"Sir... was you wanting six dollars back?"

I paused and recalculated in my head...

"Uh, five and a nickel was what I was after..." I replied

"Oh okay [lol] I'm not good at this stuff"...

I could have profited 95 cents tonight, but I ain't that way...

God we've got to get these kids back in school...

[PatJ]

I was at a convenience store and made a purchase a little less than 5 dollars and
handed the clerk a 20 dollar bill to pay for it.

He handed me 4 dollars and 95 cents back in change (which happened to be how
much my purchase was.) I asked him to recount the change. He came up with
exactly 4 dollars and 95 cents and I had to tell him that this was the amount of
my purchase and not the correct change of 15 dollars and 5 cents.

Remember - people like this are all over this country! (And they have the right
to vote!)

Scary, isn't it!

[moonshadow]

Remember - people like this are all over this country! (And they have the right
to vote!)

Apparently...

And apparently they are voting to force their employers to pay them $15 per hour or better...

Perhaps it might serve them well to understand how to count change before making such demands.... they will literally have more money than they know what to do with.

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

they will literally have more money than they know what to do with.

And if you'd dispense with your cynicism for awhile, so would you. It's a real easy argument to make to your boss that your skills far surpass and are far more valuable to him than the folks flipping burgers down the street at McDonald's. And by the time you're telling him that, you'd also be able to say, everyone else in town hiring guys like you are paying more so he wants to keep you, he'd better pay you better.

Of course, if you Southerners would ever wake up, smell the coffee and realize that unions are the reason wages and the standard of living are so much higher in the North than the South. On the other hand, to organize more of your neighbors would have to accept Blacks as equals.

Not that Northerners are immune from racism, but you give me hope when you say that even your most redneck neighbors feel social opprobrium for flying their Confederate battle flags. They should. To the max. That flag stands for tearing our country apart in defense of slavery and bigotry in the extreme. There is nothing noble or worth emulating about it.

But to get back to how much inflation will result from a $15 per hour minimum wage; I think you'll find most economists would tell you that by itself, the minimum wage increases to $15/hour won't get us much. To begin with, fast food is labor-intensive. Most industries are not.

So once it gets through, the $15 per hour increase will bring a lot more upside than down.

[moonshadow]

Of course, if you Southerners would ever wake up, smell the coffee and realize that unions are the reason wages and the standard of living are so much higher in the North than the South. On the other hand, to organize more of your neighbors would have to accept Blacks as equals.

Not that Northerners are immune from racism, but you give me hope when you say that even your most redneck neighbors feel social opprobrium for flying their Confederate battle flags. They should. To the max. That flag stands for tearing our country apart in defense of slavery and bigotry in the extreme. There is nothing noble or worth emulating about it.

*sighs*

This is why people like Trump get elected... someone makes an argument against an ultra leftist proposal like $15 minimum wage, and out cometh the race card.

Dave, you can't possibly know what it's like in the south, you don't live here. Yes, we have our problems, yes we have racist and bigots, but even they don't tend to make headlines like the ones from the west coast states tend to do.

As far as raw racism goes, I'd say that based on my expirence with the public, perhaps 5 out of 100 people in the south are truly "Jim Crow racist". I do agree that they idolize statues more than they probably should, but I feel that is more a product of social conditioning rather than racism. Same goes for the confederate flags. These are symbols of community for many southerners, the same as a rainbow flag is a symbol of the LGBT community. (And yes there is even a rainbow confederate flag).

You propose to take that away from them, but what are you going to replace it with? Instead of banning things and socially shaming people into compliance with leftist ideals, why not build a bridge and understand the concerns, lifestyles, heritage, history etc of southern people? Then focus on changing the HEART. Change the heart, and the mind will change itself.

This era of cancel culture and social shaming is simply breeding resentment and further division, and it will blow up in everyone's faces.

It's interesting that you mention unions to a guy (me) who lives in pro-union Appalachia. Many unions here were with Trump in both elections mainly over the left's position on coal. Once again, democrats want to shutter Appalachian coal mines, but they put nothing in their place for people to earn a living. I've already quoted a piece from the Roanoke Times earlier about how it is actually state Republicans who are doing the foot work to bring a more diverse economy into the Appalachian region, as state level (Northern Virginia) democrats seemingly have forgotten that this half of the state exist.

Just yesterday I read an article in the paper regarding state level Republicans vexing over how despite the fact that most people in Appalachia voted for Trump, they also voted to kill a proposed [state] constitutional amendment to codify the states "right to work" laws into the constitution. (As opposed to state code)

Also interesting was a piece I read a while back citing how one or the larger OPPONENTS of Bernie Sanders socialize health care plan were none other than UNIONS! Now what's up with that??

Unions want one thing and one thing only, to build themselves up. I'm not anti-union, but I do like the concept that I can negotiate my job directly with my employer, and as a side note, I've never held a union job in my life, and probably never will. And I've read books, documents, articles, etc over the years that would seem to indicate that even labor unions have some blood on their hands.

You might find "Coal Towns" by Crandall Shiffett enlightening. A true book written on actual accounts of miners and their families in the Appalachian region during the late 19th and early 20th century... and it doesn't have that B.S. Hollywood fluff and dramatization... just the facts.

You'll learn that while yes, there were some rotten coal companies to work for, many of the non-union coal companies took a great deal of PRIDE in taking good care of their miners and the miners families, you'll also learn that while yes, unions did bring about positive change, many people were forced to join unions under threat of violence by the unions themselves!, and how it was a 1940s Virginia "right to work" law that put an end to that sh!t.

Prior to that, a miner had to navigate the constant mine field of not getting fired for signing a union card, and at the same time, not getting shot for NOT signing a union card... all they were trying to do was work for a paycheck man...

But in closing, I take great exception to your remarks about the south. Yes, I realize I complain about them all the time, but I live here and these are "my people". I'm doing my best to open hearts and minds here, and it would be a lot easier if you left coasters would stop kicking dirt in our faces down here. Y'all ain't perfect.

[moonshadow]

But to get back to how much inflation will result from a $15 per hour minimum wage; I think you'll find most economists would tell you that by itself, the minimum wage increases to $15/hour won't get us much. To begin with, fast food is labor-intensive. Most industries are not.

So once it gets through, the $15 per hour increase will bring a lot more upside than down.

And you have completely glossed over all of my concerns.

So once it gets through, the $15 per hour increase will bring a lot more upside than down.

And when the cost of living increases and these $15 per hour workers find they have no new buying power, then what? "Strive for $25"?

And finally my BURNING QUESTION that nobody has an answer for...

Why $15?

You have completely brushed off my query into this. Why are we focused on mandating the highest minimum wage (adjusted for inflation) in the history of the U.S.? Who came up with $15 and why? What economic theory was explored? Why $15, why not $14.25, or $16.30?

Because it sounds like to me "they" came up with the figure out of nowhere because it sounded "good". A nice round number with no real basis in the complexities of the American economy. It is true that some parts of the U.S. could use a minimum wage of $15 or maybe even more like $20, yet others can manage less (around $10-$11.

The federal minimum wage should be set at the lower end of the threshold (maybe around $9-$10), and allow states to choose higher rates accordingly, as they are already doing.

[moonshadow]

But to get back to unions, why would labor unions want to advocate for strong federal labor laws and other nice things like universal health care? If these things were available to workers by federal law, then what's the point of joining a union and paying union dues?

That's where I'm at right now. I've got a good job, good insurance, good benefits, and it's a non-union job. Why would I want to submit to yet another deduction on my paycheck [union dues] just to get something I already have? Where my wage will NO LONGER be decided by my ability to work and be productive, but rather on the whims of a communal labor contract?

If I lost my job... I'd lose my insurance, mainly because democratic UNIONS oppose universal Healthcare... no, they want me paying those union dues!

But most of us backwood southerners already accept blacks as equals. If you lived here, you'd already know that...

No sir... it's transwomen that draw the hate of the southerner today in 2021.... and on that front, "I'm working on it". We'll get there eventually.

But in the meantime, perhaps you left coasters might want to mind your own front porch before you rebuke someone else's, as my understanding is the west coast states are hemorrhaging employers to southern states like Texas and Georgia...

[crfriend]

[... S]omeone makes an argument against an ultra leftist proposal like $15 minimum wage, and out cometh the race card.

Actually, it's not "ultra-leftist" but rather remarkably moderate by pre-Reagan standards. There is a vast body of evidence that by assisting the poorest and least-well paid the general population derives significant benefit -- vastly more benefit than it does by giving the billionaires more tax-cuts which just increases the downwards pressure of the general population.

Why is this so? Much of that $15/hr wage -- which is barely a living wage where I live -- will be spent in local businesses and will be spread around. This is in marked contrast to the economic elites who are already spending all they can and hoard the rest thus tying it up, primarily in gambling so they can reap ever more and more. And if the lower classes can actually save some money they'll have a buffer against things like the panics (to use the old term) that plague our laissez-faire capitalist economy.

If one really wanted to make a positive difference in things, one would repeal the legislation passed in 1981 that started the whole slide -- the Reagan inversion of the tax rates one earned versus unearned income. In 1981 the United States actively started penalizing folks who actually work for a living so the gamblers at the top could pay less -- this is why we have Warren Buffet pondering why he's paying 15% on his winnings while his secretary is paying 35% of her salary. However, that repeal would not be allowed under the current system; it won't even get talked about, much less reach debate in the legislature so corrupt the body has become. If we really wanted to "make America great again", we'd reset the tax system to roughly where it was when Eisenhower was in office: we were prosperous, had a rising middle class, were paying off the hideous debts incurred by the wars earlier in the century, and were even pondering a trip to the moon.

The economy is horribly warped, twisted, and broken right now -- and needs fixing before we can even hope to tackle the really big issues. Compared to the tax-rate inversion, the $15/hr minimum wage is peanuts.

[moonshadow]

Actually, it's not "ultra-leftist" but rather remarkably moderate by pre-Reagan standards. There is a vast body of evidence that by assisting the poorest and least-well paid the general population derives significant benefit -- vastly more benefit than it does by giving the billionaires more tax-cuts which just increases the downwards pressure of the general population.

I appreciate the direct response to my comments. But my concern is by the very machine you speak of (laissez-faire capitalist economy) will simply shift these increased labor cost on an ready overtaxed middle class and retirement system. The end result will be that in five years $15 per hour will have the same buying power as $7.50 today, so minimum wage workers are no better off.

Further, hiking the minimum wage into uncharted territory is throwing a sizable burden on small businesses. Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and the Waltons can afford this hit... Mom and Pop will struggle. I work with smaller locally owned businesses all of the time, and nobody, not one has spoken highly of a $15 minimum wage. Many have stated they'd likely just go out of business.

Why NOT go after these Reagan era tax freebies for the billionaires? Why must the burden of fixing America always fall on main Street? All of this talk of raising the minimum wage, shifting the burden of welfare onto the small business community, and yet nobody on either side of the political divide is talking about returning to Eisenhower tax rates for the rich.

Yes, I agree, let's fix the broken tax code, but let's not lay even more of a burden on small businesses and the middle class, because that's all $15 will do.

Why is this so? Much of that $15/hr wage -- which is barely a living wage where I live -- will be spent in local businesses and will be spread around.

Which is why I support a small base federal wage, and let states decide of they want to go higher. $15 won't cut it in the Boston metro area, but $10 is just fine in rural Tennessee.