Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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BobM
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Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by BobM » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:03 pm

OD & RE, PCA

Ralph
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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:57 pm

I am amused that the author uses "Joe Soap" in the same way that we Yanks use "Joe Sixpack" :lol:
Ralph!

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by crfriend » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:18 am

Ralph wrote:I am amused that the author uses "Joe Soap" in the same way that we Yanks use "Joe Sixpack" :lol:
Perhaps beer on the Emerald Isle doesn't come in six-packs...

Could've been worse ... could've been Joe the plumber.
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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by r.m.anderson » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:59 am

Using the LINK:

https://www.echolive.ie/opinion/Skirtin ... e9715b2-ds

Window opens into a big blank blue page - moving down - here is the article was posted in fine print -
Copied Snipped and Pasted for more readability in SkirtCafe text.


Skirting around the complex issue of gender identity
`

SOCIAL BOOKMARKS

By Colette Sheridan


HAVING been brought up before politically correct times, fed on nursery rhymes such as the 19th century one that deems that “little boys are made of frogs and snails and puppy-dog tails”, while little girls are made of “sugar and spice and all things nice”, it’s no wonder I find it hard to be cool about the fluidity of gender.

In my day, the binary model prevailed. The only deviation from it was boys who were ‘cissies’.

In other words, lads that were a bit effeminate, may be ‘gay’ — a word that didn’t have much traction in suburban Cork in the ’60s and ’70s. Yes, a boy could be a ‘fairy’ but we’d have collapsed in laughter (and shock) if we saw two males holding hands.

Thankfully, we live in more enlightened times but I still have to adjust my thinking to take on board the latest decree handed down from the extremely ‘woke’ sector, which would eliminate the pronouns ‘he’ and ‘she’ if its language police had its way.

It’s all very confusing. So forgive me when I admit to initially scoffing when I heard that a primary school in Wicklow is introducing a gender- neutral school uniform policy. This will allow boys to wear skirts to school. How weird.

But that reaction just means I’m a bit unreconstructed. It’s time to embrace diversity, I guess.

From September, any pupils at St Brigid’s National School in Greystones that have gender identity issues can dress according to their instincts rather than convention.

According to the school principal, Máire Costello, children now question their sexual identity at an earlier age than before.

But why is that? Is it because it’s one of the last taboos, finally creeping out of the closet?

It strikes me that primary school children are very young to be thinking they’re transgender. They’re only kids trying, perhaps too early, to navigate the world.

Shouldn’t they be enjoying life and not navel gazing about their sexual identities? Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions that would see them undergoing hormone treatment and operations to realign their sexuality?

It’s a serious issue. Not one that children are equipped to deal with.

However, boys wearing skirts ought not to be a big deal if it makes them feel more authentic. Girls have been wearing trousers for ages, after all.

Unfortunately, skirt-wearing boys will probably be mocked and bullied. But they would do well to point out to their oppressors that males have worn skirts since ancient times. From Indians in robes to the likes of Henry VIII in a doublet and diverted skirt with Roman tunic, men don’t always wear the trousers.

In the 1960s, there was a reaction against the accepted North American and European conventions of male and female dress. But while this unisex fashion movement meant women would wear male dress, men rarely went so far as to don frocks. They took to wearing velvet trousers, frilly shirts and long hair. It was a girly look, but not that daring, really.

In 1985, the French fashion designer, Jean-Paul Gaultier created his first skirt for men. It was a way of bringing a bit of novelty to male attire.

Remember David Beckham in a sarong? It made the headlines but didn’t actually translate into Joe Soap shopping for skirts.

In 2008 in France, an association was formed to help encourage men to wear skirts. In June, 2013, Swedish train drivers won the right to wear skirts in the summer when their cabins reach temperatures of 35 degrees.

There are also advocates of skirts as menswear in America. There’s even an internet forum, ‘skirt cafe’, dedicated to promoting skirts and kilts as a fashion choice for men.

The forum recognises “that gender is a complex subject and some of us may feel more ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’ at times. It adds: “However, this is NOT a transvestite or cross-dresser forum. We are committed to a fundamentally masculine gender identity — masculine name and pronouns. We call it ‘gender honesty’. Beyond that, what it means to be a man is individual and open to discussion.”

While the forum is about men, women are welcome at Skirt Cafe, “especially those who like the look of men’s legs sticking out below a skirt or kilt!”

The forum adds: “We also welcome women who may be uncomfortable with skirts for men, but are seeking to come to terms with the idea —maybe because of a loved one who simply insists on wearing the latest A-line or pleated fashions. Trans-sexual women are welcome, as women.”

I’ve heard of women wearing ‘boy-friend shirts’ but the thought of a guy asking for the loan of a ‘girlfriend skirt’ or dress would take some getting used to.

Do real men wear skirts? That is the question.


xxxxx

Real men here at the SkirtCafe sure as hell do and they wear dresses too !
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by pelmut » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:33 pm

r.m.anderson wrote:By Colette Sheridan
...Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions that would see them undergoing hormone treatment and operations to realign their sexuality? ...
I do wish these journalists would check their sources before repeating the lies put about by the 'haters'.  There has never been a single case of a child under 18 undergoing hormone treatment or an operation to realign their sexuality - not one - it is illegal and any doctor who tried it would be struck off.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by happykilt » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:17 pm

pelmut wrote:
r.m.anderson wrote:By Colette Sheridan
...Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions that would see them undergoing hormone treatment and operations to realign their sexuality? ...
I do wish these journalists would check their sources before repeating the lies put about by the 'haters'.  There has never been a single case of a child under 18 undergoing hormone treatment or an operation to realign their sexuality - not one - it is illegal and any doctor who tried it would be struck off.
Sorry, can not find a source in English, but you are wrong. Hormone treatment can happend before age 18. You might be right in your jurisdiction but not worldwide, not even in the Europe.

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by Sinned » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:33 am

Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by pelmut » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:11 pm

...Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions
Sinned wrote:Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
It does not cause permanent life changes, it merely delays puberty until the child is old enough to be certain which puberty they want to go through.  Failure to give puberty blockers will cause permanent life changes by enforcing an irreversible puberty which may turn out to be the wrong one.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by skirtyscot » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:27 am

pelmut wrote:
...Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions
Sinned wrote:Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
It does not cause permanent life changes, it merely delays puberty until the child is old enough to be certain which puberty they want to go through.  Failure to give puberty blockers will cause permanent life changes by enforcing an irreversible puberty which may turn out to be the wrong one.

Surely there is no choice of puberty. You either get the one your body has naturally, or you get a lifetime of hormones or various bits chopped off (or both) and never go through puberty at all.

Failure to give puberty blockers doesn't cause permanent changes, it allows them. And your italicised "will" doesn't sit well with your use of "may" later in the sentence.

And how can your natural puberty be wrong?
Keep on skirting,

Alastair

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by pleated » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:07 am

Sinned wrote:Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
These "puberty blockers", ie GnRH agonists, were originally licenced c1985 to treat end-stage prostate cancer.
Below is a study of one of the effects on men treated with them.

Gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists and fracture risk: a claims-based cohort study of men with nonmetastatic prostate cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16258089

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by pelmut » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:19 am

skirtyscot wrote:
pelmut wrote:
...Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions
Sinned wrote:Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
It does not cause permanent life changes, it merely delays puberty until the child is old enough to be certain which puberty they want to go through.  Failure to give puberty blockers will cause permanent life changes by enforcing an irreversible puberty which may turn out to be the wrong one.

Surely there is no choice of puberty. You either get the one your body has naturally, or you get a lifetime of hormones or various bits chopped off (or both) and never go through puberty at all.
You do go through puberty if you are given hormones, its just different from the one you would have had without the hormones.
Failure to give puberty blockers doesn't cause permanent changes, it allows them. And your italicised "will" doesn't sit well with your use of "may" later in the sentence.
The use of 'will' was correct if your body produces hormones at puberty (which most people's do) - and those hormones will cause permanant life changes in the form of puberty.  If the person is transgender, that puberty will be the wrong one as far as they are concerned.  The reason for using the word 'may' is because sometimes the person turns out not to be transgender, so the puberty they would have had without the blockers would have actually been the right one; in that case the blockers are discontinued and puberty proceeds normally, but a bit later than usual.
And how can your natural puberty be wrong?
When you are transgender.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by pelmut » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:46 am

pleated wrote:
Sinned wrote:Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
These "puberty blockers", ie GnRH agonists, were originally licenced c1985 to treat end-stage prostate cancer.
Below is a study of one of the effects on men treated with them.

Gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists and fracture risk: a claims-based cohort study of men with nonmetastatic prostate cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16258089
That treatment was used for the long-term treatment of men who had already gone through puberty and it did not include giving œstrogen to make up for the reduction in the effect of Testosterone.  The balance in that case is between a slight increase in the risk of fractures and a much greater risk of death from prostate cancer.

In the case of puberty blocking, there is a slightly increased fracture risk during the blocking period, but I have heard that it is no more significant than that which is posed by a delayed puberty which occurs for natural reasons.  In this case the balance is between a slight increase in the risk of fractures and the much higher risk of the potential suicide of a child who is being refused treatment for a preventable condition that will scar them physically and mentally for life.  

After puberty, the hormones used in the longer-term treatment of transwomen are carefully balanced by an endocrinologist to minimise this and other risks.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by dillon » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:11 am

skirtyscot wrote:
pelmut wrote:
...Should they not wait until they’re 18 before making any life-changing decisions
Sinned wrote:Puberty blocking is a form of hormone treatment.
It does not cause permanent life changes, it merely delays puberty until the child is old enough to be certain which puberty they want to go through.  Failure to give puberty blockers will cause permanent life changes by enforcing an irreversible puberty which may turn out to be the wrong one.

Surely there is no choice of puberty. You either get the one your body has naturally, or you get a lifetime of hormones or various bits chopped off (or both) and never go through puberty at all.

Failure to give puberty blockers doesn't cause permanent changes, it allows them. And your italicised "will" doesn't sit well with your use of "may" later in the sentence.

And how can your natural puberty be wrong?
Natural puberty may not be wrong, per chromosomal body traits, but may be wrong for the individual's sense of self, in particular gender. It has been well demonstrated that it is far simpler to reconcile the body to the mind than vice versa. That fact is the origin of the cliche regarding the "woman trapped in a man's body." It is not far-fetched.

The idea is to arrest the development of secondary sexual characteristics in adolescent males who are diagnosed as likely being fully transgender, and have apparent desire for transitioning, which usually comes when they are legally adults. Many of them, under counseling, may opt for pre-surgical transitioning, living as girl rather than boy...some, perhaps, in a state of androgeny. I believe, perhaps, with parental consent, it could be performed earlier in some cases...or states.Transgender is a strong compulsion, and is frequently understood by the individual from his/her early years of childhood. In the progressive regions of the west, educated parents, and other informed and unbiased adults, understand transgender as a natural phenomenon, and are aware of the signs.

Testosterone blocking - anti-androgen therapy - still requires parental or legal guardian consent. In the case of transgender females (MTF candidates), the physiological effects are generally reversible and a young there-to-fore male body can catch up to an essential functional degree, once the drug-induced limitations are withdrawn. Of course, no drug therapy is totally free of consequences, so some physical development prevented by the treatment may not be fully reversible. But the idea is to give a trans female the chance to avoid the body development effects of testosterone in order to enhance her future physical appearance. I think psychiatric treatment is mainly concerned that future sexual function as male, should the candidate withdraw from the path, is not adversely affected, and it appears that it isn't. They don't dispense this treatment lightly, on a lark. They perform extensive analysis of the individual first, confirming, as best they can, that the person is, with high probability, transgender.

As with anything psychological, there is a balance of science and art involved. Still, I think despite a bit of uncertainty, it is preferable to begin transition in youth than wait until suppressed feelings becomes a mid-life catharsis - or crisis - and one, despite cosmetic surgery, has little chance of ever "passing" as female.

I don't know what may block estrogen in FTM candidates, but that, too, is apparently possible.
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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by skirtyscot » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:24 pm

pelmut wrote:You do go through puberty if you are given hormones, its just different from the one you would have had without the hormones.

I bet it is different, what with all those hormones being pumped into the body. But different how, exactly? It's not going to be a normal puberty of the opposite sex. Drugging a boy up with oestrogen won't make him grow adult female body parts like girls do when they reach puberty.
And how can your natural puberty be wrong?
When you are transgender.
That doesn't answer the question. It doesn't make puberty wrong, it's just that the person doesn't like it.
Keep on skirting,

Alastair

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Re: Nice article that mentions Skirtcafe favorably

Post by skirtyscot » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 pm

dillon wrote: Natural puberty may not be wrong, per chromosomal body traits, but may be wrong for the individual's sense of self, in particular gender. It has been well demonstrated that it is far simpler to reconcile the body to the mind than vice versa. That fact is the origin of the cliche regarding the "woman trapped in a man's body." It is not far-fetched.


Walking is simpler than building aeroplanes, but that didn't stop the Wright brothers. It strikes me that it would be better for the patient to be taught to accept his or her body than spend a life on medication. I'm doing my best to help to narrow the societal difference between men and women. When there are no gender stereotypes to go on, how will anyone be able to say they feel like they are of the opposite gender to their sex?
Keep on skirting,

Alastair

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