Need advice in Nebraska.

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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:31 pm

Hello dpinNE,

I agree with the most recent responses that urge you to talk this out with your spouse. That's while I disagree with you and the other posters who talked down the idea of seeing a psychiatrist. As another poster put it, a psychiatrist or psychologist will tell your wife that transvestism is no longer seen as a mental health disease, the issues are dealing with the social impact, starting with one's family. At this point your ongoing deceit has become an issue of its own. You've seriously compromised the trust that any marital relationship is based on.

But a good therapist with point out to your wife that her ability to deal with something that is different but ultimately harmless requires work on her part. And if the best qualified person in your area to deal with all of this or the most likely that your wife will go with you to is that psychiatrist with whom you already have personal connections. If he can't work with you in an objective, professional manner, he'll tell you and refer you to someone else.

He WON'T tell ANYONE. No matter how juicy his gut feels your situation is. To do so would be as unprofessional as it could get, would expose him to a malpractice suit by you and your wife, in short would end his professional career. NOONE wants to share THEIR secrets with a gossip. Do you think anyone else feels less conflicted/guilty/ashamed/embarrassed than you and your wife do about yours?

You also need to deal with your older daughter. As Caultron said, to have that conversation you need to deal with her as a fellow traveler through life, in other words as an equal. That, by the way, was going to happen sooner or later but this is as good of a reason as any I'd say. I expect that it will force you to come to grips with the reasons that you wear skirts so give that some thought. Including the fact that it's part of who you are, like everyone else, who sees the world a little differently than the norm. Face the conversation as an opportunity to kick your relationship with your daughter up to the next level and as an opportunity to help her mature.

If you can succeed in that conversation you will probably have created an ally in working things out with your wife. There are strong bonds between kids and their parents; she probably wants to preserve both her relationship with you and with her mother. Unfortunately, she first has to let go of her image of who she thought you were or wanted you to be. At this point, I expect it's the latter. You said some of the kids in her high school have seen you. You better believe they recognized you and that she's known for awhile. So now honesty is your best policy.

Be prepared for something else, there's often a REALLY strong bond beyond mother and daughter. My grown stepdaughter -- who is one of the only two children I have, the other is my stepson -- is in many ways her mother's clone. They are so unbelievably close my stepson swears they communicate with clicks and whistles, like dolphins who apparently also communicate by mental telepathy. If your daughter's relationship with her mom is anything like that ... well, the challenges are obvious.

I wish I could say I have successfully applied all of these great insights with my family. In fact, it's the opposite. I'm only now gaining them now that my marriage is irreconcilably trashed. Looking back I would say that the root cause was my inability to recognize, articulate and deal with my feelings. (Anybody else have that challenge?) Which is why I am presuming to give you this advice, I'd hate for you to lose your relationship with your wife and especially with your kids. Being the outsider looking in on my estranged wife's, stepdaughter's, son-in-law's and granddaughter's relationship or what I imagine it is. They all live together so I'm estranged from all of them.

However, in the darkest days, my stepdaughter was the one who was there when I came to visit my granddaughter, my wife, Susan, and I were able to amicably do our taxes together and are at the point where we both recognize the other as outstanding human beings who simply can't live together. My son-in-law is still wrestling with his feelings. I haven't talked to my stepson about it all because he's kind of macho BUT his last words to me were, "Find yourself man." And he meant it in the very most supportive way he could.

When I first told Susan that I was going to start wearing skirts and dresses she was adamant she did not want to see me that way. When I talked to my stepdaughter and son-in-law about my skirting, my stepdaughter was very tentative in her response, my son-in-law's response was immediate, "Hell yeah I want (my granddaughter) to see you that way." He feels that she is going to have to deal with much stranger things than men wearing skirts in defiance of the social norms and he wanted her to understand on an instinctual level that most people who are different are good people, just different, like everyone else.

I'm telling you all of this because I know my biggest regret is never having had kids of my own and now being without the joys of family life and I would hate to see the same happen to you. God is love, but maintaining love and a family always requires work. For others bringing home the bacon sufficed, not now. On the other hand, the rewards are much greater too.

I know I have given you very little that is definitive here and maybe even less that's helpful, but I hope you can glean something from this because I want you to succeed in finding a way to preserve your family and your self. Ultimately, the two are inseparable and you wear skirts because they express who you are and those elements of your personhood refuse to be denied. Nor should they be.

Soon after I started wearing dresses to church -- yes church, my pastor suggested it after I laid out my life story to her -- I noticed that people treated me very differently, not to mention even more nicely than before. I asked a friend why and she denied that she treated me differently but said that another member of the congregation said that I was more gentle when I was in a skirt. My response was that I needed to keep that in mind because if I could be that way in a skirt, there was no reason for me to be otherwise in pants. I expect that something along those lines is true of you as well.

One last word of advice, be that person, whoever it may be, that you are when you are in a skirt (no, not the fearful and sneaky parts) and use it to win your family over to your wardrobe choices.

My prayers are with you.
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby dpinNE » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:12 am

Well I did it! I decided on Monday that I would wear a skirt most of the day. I had been on vacation last week and I would put one on when they weren't around or were busy and I know they wouldn't see me. I got tired of being secretive so I decided I just don't care if they saw me. After my wife and youngest daughter left for a function that lasted until 3:30 pm or so, I changed into a mid thigh skirt that is very close if not exactly the same color as some shorts that I have. My son must have been up very late since he didn't emerge from his bedroom for a long time—in the afternoon. He did see me in it at some point. My oldest daughter left for work when I was outside. She saw me in it. It's the same one she saw me in up close. I had to take my son to an appointment that was supposed to last an hour. He saw me several times before I drove him to it. Went for a walk on some trails near our home then went back and picked him up and went home. By then my wife and youngest daughter were home. I walked in and not a thing was ever said about it by anyone. My wife and the youngest saw me in it. Not sure if they knew what I had on either. I admit I wasn't exactly standing in places where they could completely see me. That might have something to do with it. Though not sure.

On the way to the appointment with my son I asked him if he wanted to ask me anything. I had to ask him about what I was wearing but I didn't mention that it was a skirt. He thought I was wearing a pair of really short pants. He didn't even know that it was a skirt. If he did he wasn't telling me. That does say that people don't always notice what a person is wearing but I figured that they would notice a family member that's in very close in proximity. How could they not notice? Why wouldn't my wife say anything especially if she is so against it?

Now I have to decide what to wear for an encore and when. Probably on the weekend. It's supposed to be in the 90s in a couple of days so it would be the perfect excuse to wear one. Everyone has seen one of the skirts. One has seen one of them. I just might have to break out a new one and see if anyone notices.
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Caultron » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:09 am

dpinNE wrote:Well I did it!...

Congratulations!

Family can be difficult for both you and for them. But so far, at least, it seems they're inclined to give you your space. So keep gently working on it and try to avoid major flare-ups.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby skirtyscot » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:44 pm

Well done! The first time is the hardest. As for your family, they're bound to tell you what they think pretty soon; let's hope it's neutral or better.
Keep on skirting,

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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby dpinNE » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:45 pm

Fireworks went off this afternoon! I decided I would wear a skirt after I got home from work. It was the same one that I wore when I wore one around the family. I was sitting on the edge of our bed waiting the my phone to charge a little. I was bent over a little reading something on it while it charged. The shades were closed so it was a little dark in the room. My wife came over and sat down next to me to put on some socks. She didn't notice then. A little later I sat up more--showing the skirt a little more but I still had my arms holding the phone on my lap. She noticed it then. That's when the fireworks went off. She called me a transvestite and that maybe I should go live that kind of life. She doesn't know the definition. I told her but it didn't matter. I told her my reasons for wearing one--comfort but she said there had to be more. She said I had to be modest and the one I had on wasn't. How does a guy be modest? If someone knows please enlighten me. She brought religion into it saying that the church was against it. I wanted her to show me that but I'm sure I won't be told anything about that. My youngest daughter was home and she closed the bedroom door and said I had to change before I could leave the room. I told her that I had worn it in front of everyone before and that no one had noticed. Got no response to that. She was all worried what our kids, my parents and my two sisters would think or say about me though not sure how they would find out. I didn't tell her that all of the kids had already seen me in it or that I drove my son to weight lifting at his school. She told me this had to stop although when I asked or else, she didn't have an answer. Who knows what she was thinking but didn't say. She is very closed minded about it and she will not change when it comes to this. She told me that she feels inadequate because I put one on although I tell her its not her. Apparently I have to conform to what she wants. I told her I don't tell her what to wear but she says that I do by the clothes she has--a weak answer and one said in the heat of the moment. I don't tell her what to buy. There's that double standard. Looks I have to keep hiding it from her even though I don't want to.

I ordered another skirt online and received it along with some other stuff just yesterday. I thought that it would come in the same box but when the tracking information was available it was apparent that it was going to be separate. The two packages were delivered before I got home from work. My wife was home when I got there. Of course she wanted to know what the other package was. I told her that it was something I like to wear. She knew then what it was. She had to go get my daughter so I had a chance to put it away while she was gone. Needless to say she wasn't thrilled.

The saga continues....
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:38 am

I'm so sorry things have come to this between you and your wife.

I wish I had some advice, but I don't. Maybe if you are also a member of her church and you think your Pastor will be more open-minded on this than your wife is you could enlist his/her assistance in clearing up the religious concerns.

If that works perhaps you and the pastor could go from there to address the other concerns. I know I just strung together a heckuva long chain of "If's" so I'll stop there and let you think about it and then respond.
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Sinned » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:15 am

dpinNE, I'm sorry to hear of your experience and I totally empathise, having heard all this from MOH. Although she isn't so bad as I can at least wear a skirt around the house whenever I want. Whoopee-doo. I have heard all the arguments about being gay, transitioning, wanting to look like a woman etc etc. Give her some time to calm down as this is totally new and a bit of a cultural shock to her and then try the rational approach, although since the reaction is emotional that probably won't work. Our children don't object, at least to my face. and I suggest that you read the thread Difficulties with Partners in Skirts and Kilts for men in this site. That will give you the background to my difficulties with MOH and I have been wearing a skirt for about 4 years now so I am farther down the skirted road than you.

Good luck, persevere and remember, baby steps, baby steps. Or invest in a good Kevlar vest and a gum shield. :( :)
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Caultron » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:54 pm

dpinNE wrote:Fireworks went off this afternoon!...

Bummer.

Completely unqualified as I am to speak about you, your wife, and your relationship, I'd nevertheless recommend giving the skirt issue some time and then easing back into it. Gently seek cracks in your wife's opposition and slowly work from there. Take solace in small victories, even very small victories.

It's best not to sneak around but if you must, try to let your wife know about it or at least suspect. Like, if you order a new skirt, let her get a glimpse of it but never see you in it. Perhaps you can work up some grudging tolerance or whatever and then work from there.

Don't ask her questions you might not like the answer to. If, for example, you were to ask her, "Under what conditions would you tolerate me wearing a skirt?" she might answer, "None," and then you'd have hardened her opposition. But if you start taking day trips some distance from home, "Just to walk around," she might give you a dark glance, sigh, and let you go. If you buy something, show it to her.

Deal-making can be risky, divisive, and lead to control issues, but it does work for some people. If it works for you and your wife, offer her that vacation or new dishwasher or home repair or whatever she's been wanting in exchange for tolerating you wearing a skirt under some conditions.

Most of all, proceed with caution and I wish you good luck!
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Kilty » Mon May 08, 2017 7:31 pm

dpinNE wrote:Fireworks went off this afternoon! I decided I would wear a skirt after I got home from work. It was the same one that I wore when I wore one around the family. I was sitting on the edge of our bed waiting the my phone to charge a little. I was bent over a little reading something on it while it charged. The shades were closed so it was a little dark in the room. My wife came over and sat down next to me to put on some socks. She didn't notice then. A little later I sat up more--showing the skirt a little more but I still had my arms holding the phone on my lap. She noticed it then. That's when the fireworks went off. She called me a transvestite and that maybe I should go live that kind of life. She doesn't know the definition. I told her but it didn't matter. I told her my reasons for wearing one--comfort but she said there had to be more. She said I had to be modest and the one I had on wasn't. How does a guy be modest? If someone knows please enlighten me. She brought religion into it saying that the church was against it. I wanted her to show me that but I'm sure I won't be told anything about that. My youngest daughter was home and she closed the bedroom door and said I had to change before I could leave the room. I told her that I had worn it in front of everyone before and that no one had noticed. Got no response to that. She was all worried what our kids, my parents and my two sisters would think or say about me though not sure how they would find out. I didn't tell her that all of the kids had already seen me in it or that I drove my son to weight lifting at his school. She told me this had to stop although when I asked or else, she didn't have an answer. Who knows what she was thinking but didn't say. She is very closed minded about it and she will not change when it comes to this. She told me that she feels inadequate because I put one on although I tell her its not her. Apparently I have to conform to what she wants. I told her I don't tell her what to wear but she says that I do by the clothes she has--a weak answer and one said in the heat of the moment. I don't tell her what to buy. There's that double standard. Looks I have to keep hiding it from her even though I don't want to.

I ordered another skirt online and received it along with some other stuff just yesterday. I thought that it would come in the same box but when the tracking information was available it was apparent that it was going to be separate. The two packages were delivered before I got home from work. My wife was home when I got there. Of course she wanted to know what the other package was. I told her that it was something I like to wear. She knew then what it was. She had to go get my daughter so I had a chance to put it away while she was gone. Needless to say she wasn't thrilled.

The saga continues....


I hope things are better a year on. Yes she might mention Deuteronomy 22:5, but a skirt is just clothes... talking of skirts, how about a knee-length jeans skirt? it might be more "modest" for her to deal with. Hope things are improving. Also denim kilts are reasonably cheap as well. As for Transvestites, it's usually people going the whole 9 yards to pass as a woman, whereas we are mostly 'men in skirts'... Some may accessorize and add tights etc to their skirt but it's the same way you add accessories to a kilt or it can look funny on it's own... :roll:
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby weeladdie18 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:33 pm

Deuteronomy 22.5 I note this post from Kilty was made nearly a year ago . This thread is possibly dead. However I would be delighted if the

Moderators would allow someone to explain the context of this Duteronomy 22.5 text. As far as I am aware this text is historically irrelevant

to our aims as "men in skirts " and irrelevant to the aims of the T. V....which is not within our remit under our rules.

There is no point in discussing a quote which has no relevance to the lives of "men in skirts " ....I feel it would be useful if when a reference to this

text is made , we can proudly stand and throw the text out of the window....

We should understand and agree the historical implication and the irrelevance of the Text. .....weeladdie
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby crfriend » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:16 pm

Good old Deuteronomy. {sigh}

This little bit of scripture occasionally gets thrown at us by various overly-religious types who are parroting the piece without bothering to think about what it means today and what it meant when it was written. It's an obnoxious play because the type who is delivering it feels absolutely safe in his faith that he is right in his opinion.

First and foremost, the passage is of utterly no consequence for non-Christians. Zero, zip, nada. The only effect it can have is if those who Believe manage to get modern laws passed in regards to the matter. For most Christians, it's of no consequence either because it comes from the Old Testament which was superseded decades and decades ago by the New Testament which most Christians regard as canonical.

With that out of the way, we can examine the thing from an historical perspective -- and it has precisely nothing whatsoever to do with a man wearing anything other than trousers. It's to do with deception -- specifically deception in order to escape from military duty. In the context of the time, the standard garb consisted of robe-like garments, not the sort of clothes we have today, and the delineation between male and female garb was very weak; clothing, for the vast majority of the population, was there for function and protection, not for displaying status. Beyond males trying to escape fighting, it was also used to keep the women from fighting by discouraging them from taking up arms. A frequent translation of the original in modern times makes the mention of arms and armour, not day-to-day attire.

So, there you go -- it's down to a rotten translation of an obsolete document that only holds significance to one group of people, and a smaller subset of those.

We're more likely to be struck down for wearing mixed-fibres than what style we fashion those fibres into.
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Caultron » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:33 pm

Deuteronomy 22-11 also says, "You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together."

Leviticus 19:28 says, "You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord."

1 Timothy 2:9 says, "women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire."

How many people take those literally?
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Fred in Skirts » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Caultron wrote:Deuteronomy 22-11 also says, "You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together."
Leviticus 19:28 says, "You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord."
1 Timothy 2:9 says, "women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire."
How many people take those literally?

Lev 19:28 - As far as I can see not many these days.
1 Tim 2:9 - About the only people that obey this one are the holiness crowd IE: The Church of God, Church of God in Christ, and other holiness churches.
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby crfriend » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:05 pm

Fred in Skirts wrote:Lev 19:28 - As far as I can see not many these days.

Indeed -- both male and female.
1 Tim 2:9 - About the only people that obey this one are the holiness crowd IE: The Church of God, Church of God in Christ, and other holiness churches.

Don't forget ISIS, Boko Haram, and the Taleban in the mix. It seems more "popular" than we'd like to admit.
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Re: Need advice in Nebraska.

Postby Caultron » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:05 am

Fred in Skirts wrote:
Caultron wrote:...Leviticus 19:28 says, "You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord."...

...Lev 19:28 - As far as I can see not many these days...

Really? We must have hundreds of tattoo shops here in the greater Phoenix area, and you see tattooed people everywhere.

Maybe it's the tank tops and short shorts people wear in warm weather, which is 7-8 months a year. Tattoos don't show so much when you're wearing a great wooly parka.

I myself have about half my body tattooed, mostly in a so-called "full shirt" (chest, sides, back, and sleeves tattooed solid).

But yes, scarification, not so much.
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