A bit of Historical Heavy Metal

[Uncle Al]

Historical Heavy Metal
Have Fun

Uncle Al

[sapphire]

Good to see one of those beasts at work! I had feared they were all gone.

Now for you train buffs.... Could you help jog my memory? I remember big coal trains pulled by big steam locomotives rumbling through our town, Deer Park, Long Island, in the 1950s. They were hauling coal to Pilgrim State Hospital.

Do any of you have any notion of what those steamers were and if there are pictures of them?

I used to love watching them come through.

[Uncle Al]

Does this help


The sun broke through for only a moment on this otherwise rainy October 16, 1955.
G5s class, 10 wheeler #35 heads up a steam special and is shown at a photo stop
in LI City.


G5s class ten wheeler #28, stands by as Hicksville "protect" engine in April of 1955.
The era of steam would soon be over as the order had already been placed with ALCO
for ten RS-3 road switchers.


LIRR #40 G5s moves off the turntable and across the yard in Oyster Bay, NY to couple
on to its train for the next trip west.


Veteran's Day in 1954, with crystal clear skies, was a good day to go out and catch
a steam train in action. Railfan-photographer Norman E. Kohl leveled his camera at
train #610 for Port Jefferson as it slowed for a station stop at Hicksville.

Information obtained from LIRR Sunrise Trail Calendars website.

Uncle Al

[crfriend]

Those are wonderful shots, Al! Thanks for posting them.

From the looks of those engines, they're "general purpose" types, and were likely the type that mostly hauled commuters into New York City some miles to the west. There would have been a change involved, however, as NYC had a ban on steam engines in force since the late 1800s -- this is what helped propel electrification in the area.

Diana's recollections are of a distinctly different critter, though, and in her musings on the topic I get an image of smaller driving wheels (they provide better pulling capacity at the expense of speed) which made them slightly ungainly-looking when compared to a general-purpose engine or an outright passenger one (which had even larger drivers than the GP types).

[sapphire]

Thanks for the pix! Yes, I have seen those engines, but they were not behemoth engines I remember pulling the coal.

As Carl mentioned, my Dad may have been pulled along by G5s in the early 1950s on his commute into Brooklyn. BTW, The change over point was in Jamaica. (the LI town, not the island!) When the eastern LIRR pooped out or the workers struck, Dad had to take the car and drive to Jamaica and we were left to walk to the market, not that it was so far away, but that entailed crossing the ever scary (well to me at the time) Deer Park Avenue.

[Gregg1100]

Hi,
What are those ginormous engines called which look like two locos stitched together- Big boy or something like that, please. ??

[crfriend]

What are those ginormous engines called which look like two locos stitched together- Big boy or something like that, please. ??

There are several types of articulated locomotives, the legendary "Big Boys" amongst them, and essentially they were, for the most part, two separate engines that shared a common boiler. There were some that were "compound" designs where one set of driving wheels used exhaust-steam from the other set -- much in the same vein as the triple-expansion engine of nautical history -- but those tended to be the exception rather than the rule. There are also types that suspended the common boiler betwixt the two engines; this is known as the Garrett arrangement.

The primary identifier of dual-engine (read, "expansion cylinders") locomotives is the presence of two sets of cylinders, crossheads, driving rods, and valve-gear. Both compound and "simple" types look similar save that in compounds the expansion cylinders in the secondary engine are larger than those on the primary engine. Ultimately, the compounds were abandoned due to the added complexity of pressure-plumbing and efficiency concerns. The "popular" ones were dual "simple" engines, both fed with primary steam from the boiler.

At least one survives today -- the Union Pacific Railroad maintains a single operable example of the "Challenger" type, which, as far as I know, still steams today. The vaunted "Big Boys" are so outside the capabilities of most trackage that they are static pieces slowly rusting away in parks today. (The really big ones were limited in where they could go based on curve-radii and weight restrictions -- a "Big Boy" was over a million pounds on rail.) The Union Pacific Railroad maintains this page about their steam program, which warms the hearts of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of railfans each year.

[Uncle Al]

(OK My Blasted ($%&^!@($%Y&*(!#@#%) browser crashed when I was creating
a response to Greg1100 about the Articulated engines. So, I let the idea
'rest' a bit and have tried to re-create the posting. Here goes-----)

The 4-8-8-4 'Big Boy' used by the Union Pacific Railroad was one of the largest
steam engines around. The articulated engine, basically, was created using two
4-8-0 engines, back-to-back. Then placed the 2nd set of 'steering wheels' at the
back to become the trailing wheels - thus the 4-8-8-4 designation.

The UP engine and tender weighed in over 1,189,500 lbs under version 1.
Version 2 weighed over1,208,750 lbs. Both were, and still are, limited to the
routes they can operate on. When UP planned on running the 'Big Boy' for an
anniversary trip, the original route would no longer handle the weight of the
engine and tender, let alone cars pulled behind it.

The 'Big Boy' specifications can be found here.

Steam engine wheel sets/arrangements can be found here.

The LIRR had a couple of 4-8-0's(12 wheelers) and several 4-6-0's(ten wheelers).

There were a few of the Triplex engines with the 2-8-8-8 designation. They used
the last set of 8 driving wheels under the tender. Four examples of the triplex
engine were built, 3 engines were used on the Erie Railroad and the 4th engine
was used on the Virginian Railroad.

The PRR used a smaller version called the T-1, a 4-4-4-4 NON-Articulated engine.

Uncle Al

[crfriend]

The 4-8-8-4 'Big Boy' used by the Union Pacific Railroad was one of the largest
steam engines around. The engine, basically, was created using two 4-8-0 engines,
back-to-back. Then placed the 2nd set of 'steering wheels' at the back to become
the trailing wheels - thus the 4-8-8-4 designation.

Actually the trailing 4 wheels in the design were required to hold the weight of the firebox on the things. Four were needed to steer it into curves, and then, in a very ingenious design, the lead engine was allowed to translate laterally and simultaneously pivot to the frame (the boiler being rigid) and still provide propulsive power. The end result looks positively weird where the boiler can be pointed in one direction and the rest of the locomotive seemingly pointed somewhere else. The drawbacks to these designs had primarily to do with the plumbing to keep 300+ PSI of superheated steam properly contained with all that motion going on.

The LIRR had a couple of 4-8-0's(12 wheelers) and several 4-6-0's(ten wheelers).

Sapphire and I believe we have identified the candidates for what she saw (as a very little girl) in freight service as the 4-8-0 type with "short" drivers and an overall massive appearance.

[Uncle Al]

Yes, the 4-8-8-4 had TWO pivot points, one over the center of each set of
8 drivers. On some curves the engineer cab would 'hang-over' the side of the
train as none of the wheels were in a fixed position to the boiler.

The 4-6-6-4 Challenger only had 1 pivot point on the front 6 driver wheels.
The rear driving wheels were in a fixed position relative to the boiler.

Uncle Al