Skirt Choices

[crfriend]

Why sleeveless?

Getting sleeves right is a pain.

There's the quintessential (or at least stereotypical) male response.

Scene 1: The workshop:

Fiddle... fiddle... fiddle {CURSE!} Tinker... tinker... tinker {BLASPHEME!} It didn't belong there anyway, let's just call it a "spare part" and move on.

Scene 2: The designer:

Fiddle... fiddle... fiddle... No, that isn't it. Tinker... tinker... tinker... Aw Bl**dy 'ell; that's not it either! {CURSE} [Back to drawing board] Tweak... That's better, I didn't need it anyway. [Build]

Actually, I was thinking sleeveless with a high V neck, with a light jacket of the same material worn over it...a "manly bolero"?

You still need to deal with the sleeves. {duck and cover}

Quite honestly, I do not know whether a man's outfit could be made sleeveless and still look presentable in a non-labourer's work environment (think tank-tops, aka "wifebeaters"). It might be possible, but I suspect it'd be a bit of a stretch.

Like I say, a fantasy. Not something I'll ever make for myself.

Now that's a wee bit on the defeatist side. The challenge is to come up with a design that meets your aesthetic and desire to avoid working with sleeves. Maybe it can be done, maybe it can't, but you'll never know if you don't try.

[Big and Bashful]

Skip, I find your comments about bodices and mammary glands a bit odd, correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you mentioned having a degree of gynocomastia (apologies if I have spelt it wrong). To have that as`a male you prove that men have them as well.
Just a thought!

[BrotherTailor]

Just some observations on comments made in this thread.

Brother Tailor is correct, the technical term for the upper portion of a garment is bodice. It is a sewing term that goes back centuries.

Anatomically/medically, men have mammary glands and can get breast cancer. In some medical conditions, they can even lactate. Both are abnormal medical conditions of male mammary glands.

Now for a sewing question: Brother Tailor, you mentioned that getting sleeves right is difficult. Can you explain what is difficult about it? You also mentioned that you are making yourself a robe. Does it have sleeves?
When you say that getting sleeves right is difficult, are you referring to set in sleeves? If so, I will, to a limited degree agree. There is a knack to it that can only be achieved by practice.

Years ago, I made a complex velvet gown in royal blue. It was a modern adaptation of a medieval gown. The outer gown was royal blue velvet with short, puffy sleeves. There was a large bow across the bodice and the neckline and bow were trimmed in handsewn pearls. The skirt was split in front, so as to reveal an underskirt in royal purple jacquaard. The overskirt was lined in green metallic brocade. The gown had straight undersleeves of royal purple jacquard.

I find that the problems in working with velvet are that the fabric is thick and because of the nap, tends to slide. Attaching double sleeves to the bodice was indeed a chore that took a lot of patience.

Sapphire. The robe I'm making has sleeves. Being a bathrobe it is not vital that every detail be microscope perfect. You are right that set in sleeves are my big gripe, they take time and patience to do well. raglan sleeves are pretty simple. It is the easing that I hate, getting it right can be so tedious...and for myself, my patience runs out.

Go sleeveless and wear a cape or pelerine I can make a cape in the time it takes to layout, cut, sew, fit, and set in two sleeves that both fit and look good with no puckers or so forth. I made a broadcloth short sleeved work shirt for myself awhile back and cursed the sleeves under my breath. It can be done, fair enough, but I think a sleeveless bodice with a matching cape or jacket might cover my shoulders (shrink them a bit). I'm not hulky, but even so I'm quite muscular and have gigantic shoulder blades and a hollow back.

crfriend - LOL. You've hit the nail on the head...

[sapphire]

Brother Tailor,
Can you describe the technique you use for setting in sleeves? There are several.

My mother taught me a way of doing it that is time consuming, but yields wonderful results.

However, don't ask me to do set in sleeves with a flat fell seam - my eyes just roll to the back of my head and catatonia ensues.

[BrotherTailor]

This robe has flat fell seams throughout and semi-shirt type sleeves! (hard to describe)

I usually turn the shirt (or whatever) inside out, turn the sleeve inside out (if sleeve is made up and stitched before) and then with the good sides together I pin the shoulder seam and match all the notches etc. , then just work my way around bit by bit, rolling the seam line between fingers and thumb and pinning until it is even. then stitch, removing pins as I go. I don't baste unless a fitting is needed, most of the shirts in men's patterns have enough room that fit is not an issue.
I made one that had the sleeve stitched on while the front and back panels were still open except for the soulder seams, overlaid seam. it was nice to do.

I'm really not that impatient, just at times if I've had to rip seams it gets me frustrated. Don't like ripping out seams at all...

[Emerald Witch]

Thanks for the encouragement Peter. I am limited financially. All the garments I make for my own use are bought as bolt end clearance fabric at discount stores....velvet is not something you will ever see in the bargain bolt rack. I will pay whatever anyone wants for a custom made garment...with a deposit, or I'll sew anything for anyone if they buy the fabric etc and have a pattern.

But for myself, no. The freedom to fantasise and imagine things without having to act them out or pursue them is a way of coping I guess. The mind is free to fly while the body and circumstances remain firmly anchored in reality.

How ironic that today's sermon was all about the masks we wear to help ourselves cope with the issues of life! The point of the sermon was that some masks do help us get through life productively, and are useful tools. Some can even give us helpful guideposts and goals to live up to. But it is important that we don't let a mask live our life for us when we could be living ourselves.

Only you can say if your fantasies are serving you well, or holding you back. I hope it is the former!

In any case, I finally found that online fabric store that I've traded with before and had such good experiences with, so I thought I'd post it here. It's called Dharma Trading ( http://www.dharmatrading.com ). They have excellent quality natural-fiber fabrics, and they specialize in selling their fabrics raw and undyed so you can dye it yourself. (Naturally, they also sell a variety of dyes and stuff too!) Me, I just like the look and feel of the natural fabrics. The prices are really reasonable too. They have lots of hard-to-find stuff there like linen, silk, hemp and bamboo fabrics in every imaginable weight from chiffon to velvet. It's a lot of fun to browse.

(end of commercial announcement! )

Have fun sewing!

[Emerald Witch]

OMG!

THAT WAS A LINK!!

Did everybody see that?!?

I didn't even know I was gonna do it, and I didn't know how to do one, but I JUST POSTED A LINK!!!

Hey, waow! I gotta feel proud of myself now. I just posted a link. I'm Cool.

[sapphire]

Emerald,
You are very cool! Congrats on your technological breakthrough!!!

Is this the season of the witch or what?

[Departed Member]

Is this the season of the witch or what?

Technically, from this weekend (clock change) it is!

[BrotherTailor]

Emerald,
way to go with the link!

To be honest my clothing fantasies are a very miniscule part of my life. They may seem like a lot on here...as this is a rather focused group. My life is not what I wear, I simply enjoy sewing and creating stuff...so I talk about it on here.

If you want the other 99% of my life it'll have to happen elsewhere.

[sapphire]

Brother Tailor,
For what it is worth, here's what Mom taught me.

Start with what you describe about turning the bodice and the sleeve inside out and pinning at the underarm, notches and shoulder.

THen choose a side, front or back. Fold the fabric so that the shoulder pin and the notch pin are together. Basically, you are folding the bodice portion of the fabric and the sleeve portion of the fabric in half. Put the two (middle half of the bodice fabric and of the sleeve fabric) and pin where the two halves meet. Position the pin so that it is perpendicular to the edge of the fabrics.

You will now have two "bubbles of fabric where before you had only one.

Choose one bubble and halve it as described above and place a pin at the halfway point.

Continue to divide and conquer until all the sleeve is pinned to the bodice. You will have equal apportionments of sleeve to bodice all the way around.

It is important that you pin perpendicular to the edge of the fabric. You will use LOTS of pins. Leave all of the pins in and SLOWLY stitch the sleeve to the bodice. The sewing machine needle will tend to slide over the pins and just stitch to the fabric. The fabric protects the sewing machine needle from being damaged by the pins, but you must sew very slowly and carefully.

This should yield a smooth ease for a dress or semi-dress sleeve and/or equally spaced gathers/pleats for puffy sleeves.

After the sleeve is in place, remove the pins. Remeber you have used LOTS of pins.

Wish I could show you this in person.

[BrotherTailor]

Sapphire, I understand exactly what you're saying, as it is pretty much how I pin it now. BUT I have not left the pins in, instead I remove them as I stitch, and I do lose a lot of evenness in so doing.

Would you suggest the walking foot be used? What about thread tension? tighter or looser? What type of pin do you use? (fineness) Also what stitch length would you suggest? Do you finish the seam in some way? zigzag or what?

[Peter v]

Thanks for the encouragement Peter. I am limited financially. All the garments I make for my own use are bought as bolt end clearance fabric at discount stores....velvet is not something you will ever see in the bargain bolt rack. I will pay whatever anyone wants for a custom made garment...with a deposit, or I'll sew anything for anyone if they buy the fabric etc and have a pattern.

But for myself, no. The freedom to fantasise and imagine things without having to act them out or pursue them is a way of coping I guess. The mind is free to fly while the body and circumstances remain firmly anchored in reality.

Is that you speaking, or the weight of unacceptance of your surroundings?

Peter v.

[sapphire]

Brother Tailor,
I have a Sears Kenmore machine circa 1968. It goes forward and backward, has a presser foot and a zipper foot and a Rube Goldberg button hole attachment that requires partial dismemberment of the machine to use.

Frequently, I get so fed up with the buttonholer that I make bound buttonholes or hand embroider the buttonholes.

I use the regular presser foot and the same tension and stitch length that I use for any of the other seams (fabric weight dependent). I use the finest weight pins that I can find that will hold up to the fabric weight that I am using.

I do not have zig zag or a serger. If I am concerned about ravelling, I will stitch under each edge of the seam. If I am really concerned, especially with gauzey fabric, I'll do french seams. I just don't like flat fell seams on sleeves, although I've done it many times.

The key to my Mom's method is to pin so that you do not have to remove pins as you stitch (pinning perpendicular, rather than parallel). In a way, this can be thought of the lazy sewer's alternative to hand basting.

I also use this method for attaching skirts to bodices, skirts to waistbands, and for setting in pleats. I also use this pinning method on the limited times that I have lost control of reason and decide to totally hand sew a garment.

[Peter v]

We sem to have wandered from the path, but sleeveless shirts, tops for men I think are difficult to fit correctly with the overall look, with a skirt, except only the very manly skirts, as I think it is just the slender, arms and shoulders, smooth hairless skin of the arms and neck odf women which are the most pleasant to look at. If you are a man and also are built that way, then sleeveless tops with skirts or sleeveless dresses may look very good. Muscular arms and shoulders, with much manly body hair doesn't work so well for the look with skirts.

Some things are pleasing to see and others are not so, no matter male or female.

And back to the beginning,
If "it's you" then floral skirts are good for you. But be sure to get the whole concept right. Your total look must be pleasing to see, irregardless male or female. Women can see that when men wear skirts and have a good combination of clothing, that it looks good on them, and they don't care that he's wearing a skirt, 'cause he's dressed right, is plaesant to look at.

There may be some confusion with the onlooking public, but who cares? We're not here to please all other people. It's a pleasing site to see people happy, pleased with themselves. And if you get the clothing right, all the better.

Peter v.