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denimini wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:04 am Do we apply such gender associations with the other basic needs, food and shelter, as we do with clothing?

Yes, it's not black and white in contrast, with overlap and shades of grey.

Single living men tend to have plainer houses and décor, fewer ornaments and less flowers, with a couple of items that reflect an interest. Just looking around, my few ornaments all have a use, my first fly fishing reel, vintage camera, vintage compass and a few shooting trophies that come and go. White walls and ceiling, Oak floor and leather and oak furniture. As Le Corbusier said "The house is a machine for living in".

Women will nest build the same as other animals do (especially in pregnancy), with more layers of "stuff", just to make the place look and feel nice and safe.

There are always exceptions, but as a species, you can't escape mother nature.

Bodycon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:49 am There are always exceptions, but as a species, you can't escape mother nature.

The question I have is: how much of this is learned behaviour? Like the experiment where they got people to observe babies, where they told the people beforehand the baby was a randomly chosen gender. People acted differently based on what they thought the gender was. (For reference Condry & Condry is the start of the research in this direction.)

On the question: do women tend to spend more effort on making a home look nice do so because of cultural expectations? I'd say that's a pretty high chance. All it takes is one visitor to exclaim how bare the house and that it should be more homey. Guys get that sort comment much more rarely.

Bodycon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:49 am

denimini wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:04 am Do we apply such gender associations with the other basic needs, food and shelter, as we do with clothing?

Yes, it's not black and white in contrast, with overlap and shades of grey.

Single living men tend to have plainer houses and décor, fewer ornaments and less flowers, with a couple of items that reflect an interest. Just looking around, my few ornaments all have a use, my first fly fishing reel, vintage camera, vintage compass and a few shooting trophies that come and go. White walls and ceiling, Oak floor and leather and oak furniture. As Le Corbusier said "The house is a machine for living in".

Women will nest build the same as other animals do (especially in pregnancy), with more layers of "stuff", just to make the place look and feel nice and safe.

There are always exceptions, but as a species, you can't escape mother nature.

It's exactly the opposite in my house. It seems I'm the one that's always cluttering things up, I like my pantry well stocked at all times, I have more plates, pots and pans than I'll ever need, there is very little of my walls that don't have something hanging off it, I keep things clean and organized (I'm not a "sloppy" hoarder), but I do like things. Jenn is always after me to get rid of stuff. I've often joked that if it were left up to her, there would be nothing left in our house.

My mother's ex is the same way, in fact she even used the term "nesting" when he moved in and took over the house.

I dunno... I've known a lot of men who "nest", and a lot of women who get after them for it.

rode_kater wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:46 am how much of this is learned behaviour?

Some learned, some instinct (that old grey area). Female dogs go around the house looking for a place to have pups, even though they probably have a safe home and bed already, and other animals do the same. There is no way this will be remembered or taught, so must be instinct. Women are human animals, so I suspect the why is instinct and the how is learned.

rode_kater wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:46 am do women tend to spend more effort on making a home look nice do so because of cultural expectations?

Yes, I think so; keeping up with the Joneses (or Kardashians) is alive and well all over the planet. Status, class, wealth etc. all have a part to play.

moonshadow wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:53 am It's exactly the opposite in my house.

Balance achieved through role reversal or one takes over the traits when the other doesn't have them.

Sounds like you have it down to a T. You're lucky.

I admit that in Australia there was a period where men were considered sissies if they ate quiche I can not think of any examples of sissy houses.

I still think that frills, lace and cheerful floral patterns are totally accessible to men, so why are we disowning these by calling them feminine? Women claim garments as there own, I don't think many would ponder "What masculine items do I wear?"

Answering the question of this thread title has similar implications and voluntary complicity as answering "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

denimini wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:52 pmI still think that frills, lace and cheerful floral patterns are totally accessible to men, so why are we disowning these by calling them feminine? Women claim garments as there own, I don't think many would ponder "What masculine items do I wear?"

Frills, lace, and other "fancy stuff" are definitely within men's grasp if they decide to merely reach for it. For instance, the bedspread that I bought along with my king-sized waterbed in the 1980's had satin ribbons sewn into it and lace trim on everything. A couple of my pals queried me on, "Isn't that a bit feminine?" to which my rejoinder was, "So what. I happen to like it."

"So what. I happen to like it." is a perfectly valid answer.

by denimini » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:04 pm

Do we apply such gender associations with the other basic needs, food and shelter, as we do with clothing?

YES, every day on almost every noun in several languages. One of my challenges living in a Latin country is the use of gender pronouns applied to everyday things -- a CASA is FEMALE, a GOTO (Cat) & PERRO (Dog) are generically male but if named and known can become gota, and perra and my FALDA (Skirt) is female. Then I have to remember to use the proper pronoun if I'm asking for an UN (one-male) item or UNA (one female item). Add in a gaggle of somethings, even if they are mixed or often all females, they become male in script. And of course exceptions, even though Spanish is not so bad as English that way, what would seem to follow the rule "ends in 'a' is female" does not not work for a glass of water (Aqua) as the sound of la before agua is considered awkward therefore Agua, despite the 'a' ending is El Agua! And if that is not enough fun, ask Google what is a "Male Skirt" in Spanish -- you get Falda masculina!

If you are Ray, or want to dig deeper; here is a fun little site to get you started: https://spanish.yourdictionary.com/span ... words.html

Oops Ray, meant Stu....but hey, ye both is falda masculina, no!

denimini wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:04 am Do we apply such gender associations with the other basic needs, food and shelter, as we do with clothing?

While I don't drink, I know certain drinks are considered "women's drinks" (see a comedy sketch illustrating this, although I don't think it was funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GW22sAElpE). Not entirely a basic need (I've survived fine with no alcohol input!).

Definitely food - think of salad vs a big bloody steak. There was just a certain... vibe I would get around other people in high school and college. Women tended to eat "dainty" meals as they were "watching their figure" whereas guys tended not to care (or didn't show it). Not just classmates but also among my parent's friends and such.

Shelter? Well, man cave (yuck!) / she shed (yuck!). Seriously people? We can do better than this.

I usually wear high heels with skirts, I find nothing more exhilarating than the feel and look of a high heel (especially a stiletto, but I also wear blocks) with a skirt. It gives you a certain swagger and elevates confidence, and not being tall, the height boost is lovely. I was into wearing high heels long before I got into skirts, but I now find I have to wear both together. The next thing I am now considering is corsets, as I think they would work well worn under dresses.

steamman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:19 am I usually wear high heels with skirts, I find nothing more exhilarating than the feel and look of a high heel (especially a stiletto, but I also wear blocks) with a skirt. It gives you a certain swagger and elevates confidence, and not being tall, the height boost is lovely. I was into wearing high heels long before I got into skirts, but I now find I have to wear both together. The next thing I am now considering is corsets, as I think they would work well worn under dresses.

I should have written the same post! I totally agree with you!

I've bought yesterday fluid pants. It's incredibly pleasant to wear, especially with little wind.





https://www.casimages.com/v/DsjvOb-VID- ... 7.mp4.html

For pants, I bet those are pretty comfortable... they look very light and breezy. Perhaps a good choice on those very blustery days!

moonshadow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:25 pm For pants, I bet those are pretty comfortable... they look very light and breezy. Perhaps a good choice on those very blustery days!

I shouldn't have say it better!

moonshadow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:25 pmFor pants, I bet those are pretty comfortable... they look very light and breezy. Perhaps a good choice on those very blustery days!

They're sometimes known as "palazzo pants" and are very skirt-like and extremely comfortable. I have several very light ones in rayon of various colours and an absolutely magnificent pair of maroon ones in satin. All receive a fair bit of mileage.