Skirt wearer turned away

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
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Sinned
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Skirt wearer turned away

Post by Sinned »

I came across this: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/sty ... li=BBoPOOm Of course there are the usual mindless moronic comments. I left a comment to stir up the hornet's nest.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by crfriend »

I just got back a couple of weeks ago (it feels like an eternity!) from Savannah, GA/USA, wore skirts (or the occasional dress) the whole time I was there, and was not once challenged about anything -- and I have long hair, frequently adorned with bows of other fancy adornments. I suspect there's something else in play here that's not being reported.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by STEVIE »

Give this sad tale all the derisive adjectives that you can think of and you probably won't be terribly far from the truth.
There is another truth, a man in a skirt is nowhere near as universally acceptable as some folks seem to believe.
Sure, many of us really have that luxurious freedom but countless numbers don't.
The incidents that get reported are really only the tip of a huge iceberg.
We will never know the true scale because most men are just too intimidated to try it in the first place.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by moonshadow »

Good. I think businesses should feel welcome to turn people away if they want.

I know it can hurt, and may ruin one's day, but I'll never understand why non-conforming people would want to KNOWINGLY spend their money on an establishment that doesn't respect them as a customer...

Frankly, I work damn hard for my money, an if someone has a problem with the clothes I'm wearing to the point where they feel compelled to deny me service... by all means, lay it on me.. I'll be happy to take my business elsewhere...

Personally, these last couple of years I've gotten to the point where I mail order most of my novelties and supplies in via Amazon. I really don't care to be around the public while wearing skirts much anymore, I've just grown so jaded with the double takes, the snickers, the giggles, the "wha-tha-f-ck"s, etc. I do most of my grocery shopping after work while I'm still in a work uniform these days, and normally only wear skirts when visiting known mom and pop establishments....

It's not the businesses, it's the customers of the businesses, which is why I like shopping smaller establishments while wearing skirts... not so many people around bothering me, and the proprietors are usually VERY grateful for my business.

I'm just over people already... ma'am/sir... just go to another damned bar or drink at home!
Last edited by moonshadow on Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by moonshadow »

Oh and by the way... we have a few night clubs and dining establishments around here that have strict dress codes for men (women naturally can wear just about whatever they want)...

Anyway, I never challenge these places... I just respect their rules and dine elsewhere.

Besides... these fancy restaurants and clubs are overrated anyway... some of the most memorable dates I've been on with Jenn were very humble, like when we went mud slinging in Jax 2 years ago in the Tennessee mountains well after midnight... or going back about a decade, her and I.... subway sandwiches and sodas, sitting on the tailgate of my old pickup truck on some isolated rural wayside out in the county under the stars late at night...

Pffft... ain't no dress code fellas... keep yer fine dining thank you very much! :wink: 8)

You can't call it a "country date" if it doesn't include a 2am stop at a Waffle House before you ride around for another two hours! :lol:
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

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moonshadow wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:31 am Good. I think businesses should feel welcome to turn people away if they want.
I know it can hurt, and may ruin one's day, but I'll never understand why non-conforming people would want to KNOWINGLY spend their money on an establishment that doesn't respect them as a customer...
Frankly, I work damn hard for my money, an if someone has a problem with the clothes I'm wearing to the point where they feel compelled to deny me service... by all means, lay it on me.. I'll be happy to take my business elsewhere...
Yeah, Moon and this is certainly your prerogative but what about the poor sap who maybe just isn't so self-confident?
Businesses are there to provide a service, should they really get to pick and choose who gets that service?
"Sorry Man in Skirt but we cannot sell you food because frankly, we don't like your style/creed/colour/BMI".
OK, a tad over the top but I can't see anything "good" in this at all.
Got to say that your other comments would seem to underline my own thoughts about more general acceptance.
Is "mud slinging" some sort of Virginian metaphor?
Sure, "simple pleasures" in the right company can never be bought, they are priceless.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

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STEVIE wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:24 am Yeah, Moon and this is certainly your prerogative but what about the poor sap who maybe just isn't so self-confident?
Businesses are there to provide a service, should they really get to pick and choose who gets that service?
Yes, I think so. Today it's someone "not dressing their gender", tomorrow it's a bunch of riff raff sporting racist slogans on tee-shirts, or other clothing in poor taste.

Take the anti-gay Colorado baker... what if the next baker is of African descent and is being asked to bake a Confederate flag decorated cake for a Klan rally?

There are tens of thousands of businesses that cater to LGBTQ people... again I ask, why support businesses that are bigoted?

Oh and I don't advise leaving negative reviews or going to the news either... at least 50% of the population are going to be on the side of the business (see the comments) and those people will be sure to drive the extra miles to patronize the establishment... it's free advertising!

Additionally, I want to be wanted at an establishment, I don't want to be catered to because someone is forcing the business' hand.

It's like the more bigoted a business is, they more people want to force that establishment to take our money! It makes no sense!
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:31 am Good. I think businesses should feel welcome to turn people away if they want.
While I agree with the principle, the way it is done matters.

For example, here business are allowed to refuse service or even let you in, but they have to do it on the basis of a posted policy/house rules. So for example, if this shop has a sign near the door saying: "all patrons must dress their gender", then it would have been perfectly reasonable for the shop to refuse service. Similarly, a cake shop can state that they refuse to bake cakes with racists texts.

(House rules have limits obviously, you can't refuse service to disabled people because they're disabled)

What they can't do is after you've already entered decide to make up new rules on the spot to refuse service.

This seems like a good idea to me, otherwise it's very hard to distinguish whether you are being refused service because of the opinion of one shop attendant or not.

If shop really wants to go down the path of refusing everyone that doesn't fit their world-model, they should at least have the guts to write that down and post it for all to see.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

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rode_kater wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:14 pm
moonshadow wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:31 am Good. I think businesses should feel welcome to turn people away if they want.
While I agree with the principle, the way it is done matters.

For example, here business are allowed to refuse service or even let you in, but they have to do it on the basis of a posted policy/house rules. So for example, if this shop has a sign near the door saying: "all patrons must dress their gender", then it would have been perfectly reasonable for the shop to refuse service. Similarly, a cake shop can state that they refuse to bake cakes with racists texts.

(House rules have limits obviously, you can't refuse service to disabled people because they're disabled)

What they can't do is after you've already entered decide to make up new rules on the spot to refuse service.

This seems like a good idea to me, otherwise it's very hard to distinguish whether you are being refused service because of the opinion of one shop attendant or not.

If shop really wants to go down the path of refusing everyone that doesn't fit their world-model, they should at least have the guts to write that down and post it for all to see.
I agree with this! I think posting rules for all to see would make people rethink their patronage of a business, and would make a lot of these policies look silly. This lounge/bar would probably have an extensive list of what isn't permitted, so perhaps they would have to post only what they allow in.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

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rode_kater wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:14 pm So for example, if this shop has a sign near the door saying: "all patrons must dress their gender", then it would have been perfectly reasonable for the shop to refuse service.
Well, it might be better to write "no transgender people allowed", as transgender people do dress according to their [identified] gender. Or simply "no transgender women allowed" since that all the transphobes seem to care about.

I'm not saying I think the business is morally right, but it is what it is... people have a right to be an ass, provided there is no injury to others, and denying someone booze and a party is hardly an injury.
rode_kater wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:14 pm What they can't do is after you've already entered decide to make up new rules on the spot to refuse service.
Yeah, I'll second that. Once your in and situated then that's a different matter.

But again, yeah, I always appreciate when a business promotes their bigotry up front, that way I know to not even bother to park the car... even if I'm normal clothes.

Consider another real life example of mine:

Jenn and I stopped a few years back at a BBQ place the next town over. I was wearing a skirt. It was a "seat yourself" place. We waited for 45 minutes for a server to even come around and take our order, during that time we had three groups come in, have their order taken, and actually got their food... we hadn't even placed our order yet.

We were about to leave when they finally came around. It took another 30 minutes to prepare and then it was overcooked...

Now I don't know if it was the skirt or not, but if it was, I would have appreciated them just telling me to leave the moment I walked in rather than waste two hours and $40 on a overcooked meal... there are other places to eat.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:21 pm
rode_kater wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:14 pm So for example, if this shop has a sign near the door saying: "all patrons must dress their gender", then it would have been perfectly reasonable for the shop to refuse service.
Well, it might be better to write "no transgender people allowed", as transgender people do dress according to their [identified] gender. Or simply "no transgender women allowed" since that all the transphobes seem to care about.
Yep - major double standard. Based on what I've seen reported in the news and these comment sections, amab transgender people are deviants, afab transgender people are "confused, possibly sucked into the life by peer pressure".

I think I have an understanding why, and sometimes the behavior of the male species leaves me embarrassed, I like to keep hope alive in me that not all of us guys are terrible people.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by moonshadow »

From their website:

https://monticelloatl.com/

On behalf of the Leadership of The Monticello Restaurant and Bistro, we would like to issue a public apology to the woman involved in the incident at our entry, Friday night (1/14/2022). Our organization is built off of a diverse workforce and it is our intention to serve all of our customers and clients fairly at all times. We have served and provided top level entertainment to the Metro Atlanta area for over 30 years. We are known and respected in our industry for our open hiring policies, diverse entertainment activities, and our philanthropy which is directed to communities who are underserved. We are proud to have several members of the LGBTQIA community on staff with our company. Unfortunately, the incident that took place on 1/14/2022 did not represent the policies and procedure of our organization. Our policy states that one must be easily identified by their state issued identification at entry. Moving forward we are taking the following actions to ensure that aforementioned incident does not occur again:

1) The employee in question has received disciplinary action

2) Our organization will undergo Sensitivity training

3) Our organization will communicate to ALL STAFF our policies and procedures which reflect an open and welcoming environment for all persons

It is our goal to continue to serve the metro Atlanta community with entertainment, great food, and networking opportunities. It is our mission to provide an open and welcoming environment. We believe that all persons have the right to live their truth and should be respected as such. Again, we apologize for the unfortunate situation.

Many Thanks,

The Monticello Management


Their dress code seems to be average for such places.... those kind of places are not really my scene.... in fact, I've never really had suitable "clubbing" attire even before I started wearing skirts.

But it looks like they've made good on it nevertheless.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

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rode_kater wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:14 pm [...]
Similarly, a cake shop can state that they refuse to bake cakes with racists texts.
(House rules have limits obviously, you can't refuse service to disabled people because they're disabled)
That's an interesting distinction.  One is discriminating against someone because of what they choose to be or do, the other would be discriminating against someone on the grounds of what they are and have no power to change.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

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pelmut wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:13 pm That's an interesting distinction.  One is discriminating against someone because of what they choose to be or do, the other would be discriminating against someone on the grounds of what they are and have no power to change.
It's still protected by the first amendment. People have a right to be racist, and they have the right to request racist products, and businesses have (and should) have the right to refuse.

On the LGBTQ matter, many people have deep religious concerns for being required to render service to LGBT people. Religion is also a choice, but both are protected by the same constitutional amendment... so which one cancels the other out?

It was an interesting case.

Back to racism, like any other bigotry, you can force them into silence, but you can't change their heart, the former only serves to breed resentment and anger, and I believe we're experiencing the fruits of that strategy, and thus we have the out of control "woke culture" on the one hand, and the rise of authoritarian fascism on the other.

I believe that you change the mind first, then the heart changes on its own.
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Re: Skirt wearer turned away

Post by Fred in Skirts »

From their website "THE DRESS CODE"

Dress code: Monticello is a upscale R&B live Entertainment Restaurant. Though we have a sports bar in addition to our Cigar Bar and Entertainment Room –WE ARE NOT A SPORTS BAR. Casual Dress code is honored only on Thursdays & Sundays for Sports. OUR DRESS IS AS FOLLOWS:

MEN-

1.NO droops or sagging pants below waist or exposing underwear.

2. No Plain T-Shirts regardless of color or tank tops or under shirts.

3. No head rags or scarfs.

4. No hiking boots( timberlands, flip flops, shower shoes, etc.)

5. No athletic gear or sweat suits

6. No ball caps with Team Logos on it

LADIES

1. No Berkenstocks, shower shoes, flip flops or fur shoes.

2. No sweat suits.

3. No improperly dressed MEN with you.

4. No work uniforms

CASUAL DRESS CODE IS OK ON SUNDAY AND THURSDAYS FOR FOOTBALL

The underline and Italics are mine.
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