Re: Rethinking Lingerie....
Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:13 am
I don't think anyone here is objecting to men wearing feminine clothing, or rather clothing 'normally' associated with women which has ornament such as frills and lace. The OP asked if this site was going to help break down gender barriers over clothing. My own thoughts are not, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post, but good luck to them and I applaud any attempt to blur the boundaries.
As a crossdresser who wears exactly the same clothes as a woman would, but at the pared-down end of the ornament scale, I seem to be in a very narrow category. My underwear and my dresses may be cut in a way that suits the female body (and by some quirk also suits mine - with the obvious addition of breast forms) - I avoid all frills, flounces and lace where I can. Men who enjoy dressing and acting as women without identifying as women seem to be quite rare. I have had my colour and styling analysed when dressed as a woman and I was categorised as a 'natural classic'. A female NC would be advised to avoid frills and flounces on skirts, dresses and tops anyway, so part of my preferences are probably related to my own gender identification and part to my clothing personality. If other men want to wear frilly and lace -trimmed clothing then that is fine with me, I just don't want them to go on and on about it. I would no more ask a man what colour of undies he is wearing than I would ask a random woman in the street - THAT is the bizarre behaviour - not what they are wearing.
A large number of men on crossdressing sites wear women's trousers. Granted, some women's trousers are made from softer, more comfortable fabrics, but what matters to these guys (or women if that is how they identify) is that they are WOMEN'S trousers - that is their primary criterion. To them the gender label is more important than any aspect of the actual garment. I own a few pairs of women's trousers - all in materials that are denied men - but I don't wear them. For me it is about skirts and dresses which seems to be the main preference on this site and long may it continue. I am all for discussing the concept of what is worn underneath from time to time as long as it does not become a main topic - there is a difference between discussing this as a concept and regaling the masses with details of what we are wearing underneath or - perish the thought - requesting details of what others are wearing underneath.
The more blurring of clothing boundaries there is the better, but I think making garments that are overtly feminine via frills, flounces and lace is not exactly entry level territory. Currently making a skirt and labelling it a 'man skirt' seems to be less about blurring gender boundaries than serving as an excuse to triple the price. We have occasionally had the likes of H&M marketing skirts to men and Top Man selling sarongs, but it never went mainstream. We need more male public figures wearing skirts every day without going down the gender fluid route. It is seen occasionally in men like Harry Styles but it needs to become more frequent before there is a spill-over into the real world. There is probably a trigger percentage out there - possibly as low as 2% - but we are probably at around 0.1% at present, if that, so there is some way to go. Every time one of us goes out in a skirt we make it easier for the next guy to go out in a skirt - we all know this.
As a crossdresser who wears exactly the same clothes as a woman would, but at the pared-down end of the ornament scale, I seem to be in a very narrow category. My underwear and my dresses may be cut in a way that suits the female body (and by some quirk also suits mine - with the obvious addition of breast forms) - I avoid all frills, flounces and lace where I can. Men who enjoy dressing and acting as women without identifying as women seem to be quite rare. I have had my colour and styling analysed when dressed as a woman and I was categorised as a 'natural classic'. A female NC would be advised to avoid frills and flounces on skirts, dresses and tops anyway, so part of my preferences are probably related to my own gender identification and part to my clothing personality. If other men want to wear frilly and lace -trimmed clothing then that is fine with me, I just don't want them to go on and on about it. I would no more ask a man what colour of undies he is wearing than I would ask a random woman in the street - THAT is the bizarre behaviour - not what they are wearing.
A large number of men on crossdressing sites wear women's trousers. Granted, some women's trousers are made from softer, more comfortable fabrics, but what matters to these guys (or women if that is how they identify) is that they are WOMEN'S trousers - that is their primary criterion. To them the gender label is more important than any aspect of the actual garment. I own a few pairs of women's trousers - all in materials that are denied men - but I don't wear them. For me it is about skirts and dresses which seems to be the main preference on this site and long may it continue. I am all for discussing the concept of what is worn underneath from time to time as long as it does not become a main topic - there is a difference between discussing this as a concept and regaling the masses with details of what we are wearing underneath or - perish the thought - requesting details of what others are wearing underneath.
The more blurring of clothing boundaries there is the better, but I think making garments that are overtly feminine via frills, flounces and lace is not exactly entry level territory. Currently making a skirt and labelling it a 'man skirt' seems to be less about blurring gender boundaries than serving as an excuse to triple the price. We have occasionally had the likes of H&M marketing skirts to men and Top Man selling sarongs, but it never went mainstream. We need more male public figures wearing skirts every day without going down the gender fluid route. It is seen occasionally in men like Harry Styles but it needs to become more frequent before there is a spill-over into the real world. There is probably a trigger percentage out there - possibly as low as 2% - but we are probably at around 0.1% at present, if that, so there is some way to go. Every time one of us goes out in a skirt we make it easier for the next guy to go out in a skirt - we all know this.