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Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:58 am
by STEVIE
crfriend wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:47 pm Not to mention that the majority of women now sport tattoos as well. Try finding one without.
My 28 year old daughter and daughter in law don't and they don't dye their hair either.
I guess they just have other vices that the old man is not privvy to.
Nothing whatsoever relevant to tattoos on men or women but there are certain types of drinking establishment that I would be more wary of than others.
OK I will sound judgemental but run down seedy looking local pubs are more likely to have an insular judgemental clientele regardless of their choice of body decoration.
As a Scot I would also say that the judgemental attitude can become more marked in the more northerly and remote locations.
I would guess that the men that Rivegauche commented on are well known native characters and as such tolerated if not fully accepted.
As long as you are aware and mindful there are still plenty of pleasantly unexpected surprises to be gotten from other folks' reaction be they of the masculine or feminine persuasions.
I'd also absolutely agree with Rivegauche that I have had more conversations with strangers since adopting skirts than I ever had wearing trousers.
Steve.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:35 am
by pelmut
crfriend wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:47 pm
Sinned wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:06 pmrg, you would probably find that the more redneck ones ( men with tattoos ) still wouldn't care!
Not to mention that the majority of women now sport tattoos as well. Try finding one without.
"Let me search you for tattoos" sounds like the sort of chat-up line that could get you into trouble.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:16 pm
by Kirbstone
'Have some Mediera, m'dear'.....might be a better line.

Tom

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:13 pm
by rivegauche
Replied to this yesterday but it disappeared. I admit I may have been a bit hasty in making the remark about tattoos. In my defence they were metaphorical not literal. I once entered a local bar (conventionally dressed) and got the sort of universal hostile pause you assume only happens in films. I confess I merely assumed the patrons (all male I think) had tattoos - I didn't hang around long enough to find out. I know some women have tattoos - my last partner had one - a very small one. I was once staying in a hotel in NE Scotland fully dressed as a woman throughout. On the morning I was leaving, I heard motor bikes revving in the car park and decided to postpone my departure until they had left. Instead, more and more came. By the time I really had to leave there must have been more than 100 bikers and their bikes in the car park, and I was blocked in. I make an elegant woman but not a very convincing one, and I had to request a way out from a bunch of leather-clad bikers when wearing a dress and heels. They not only moved aside immediately but guided me out into the crowded car park. They could not have been nicer. I was very aware that I was the one who had made the judgement here and I had been wrong in that judgement. But it doesn't mean you will always be wrong - sometimes judgements are common sense and I simply would not enter an establishment in a skirt where the atmosphere reeked of testosterone - macho people seem to me to be trying to prove something all the time. Insecure people can be hostile to people who do not conform to their prejudices.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:02 pm
by STEVIE
There is a grain of truth in The League of Gentlemen, comedic as it is.
Further to Rivegauche's comments on tattoos, I have made a similar prejudgement.
Mine was around a certain type of barber shop that I had been recommended to try.
I resisted for a long time on the supposition that I would be judged for my attire.
Eventually I succumbed and was glad to find that I had been totally wrong.
Those good folks did my hair for some years up to the point of Covid and I haven't had a trim since.
Steve.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:10 pm
by Fred in Skirts
We have two biker clubs where I live and it can be very distressful when they come around. But they are not gangsters, but all are well to do business men and women. To look at them you would think the Hell's Angles have come to town. They sport tats and all have beards or mustaches, some look like they have not shaved in weeks, long hair with pony tails etc. The women have tats wear halter tops, (some of leather) and look like tramps and harlots.

But they are all very nice to everyone they meet, so preconceived ideas go out the window. Yet on Monday morning if you were to run in to one of them you would not ever realize who they were on the weekend.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:20 am
by STEVIE
Fred in Skirts wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:10 pm But they are all very nice to everyone they meet, so preconceived ideas go out the window. Yet on Monday morning if you were to run in to one of them you would not ever realize who they were on the weekend.
Very true Fred and how often have we seen "preconception" reflected around here too?
Steve.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:03 am
by Ray
“Hell’s Angles”?

That’s an acute observation. Right? ;-)

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:26 pm
by Coder
We were traveling through downtown Jefferson in Texas one year, and there was a biker charity even going on - for a children’s hospital I think. These guys and gals looked scary, but walking amongst them (was antiquing), listening to the conversations, they were nice people. Totally flew in the face of what we thought when you think of bikers. I’m sure there are some bad biker gangs out there... but probably not as many as you think.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:51 pm
by Gusto10
Kirbstone wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:16 pm 'Have some Mediera, m'dear'.....might be a better line.

Tom
http://litwithatwist.com/have-some-madeira-my-dear/

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:11 pm
by Kirbstone
Well found, Gusto. I was only familiar with original Flanders & Swann recordings, but that one is really quite different, even if he sticks to the original lyric, and a very amusing fine performance. I frequently used it as a party piece, sung 'a-capella', which means unacompanied.

Tom

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:22 pm
by Sinned
I once saw a short talk by Quita Christison on this subject and one of the points in it was to STOP - See The Other Person. Not to make a judgement based on first impressions. Here's the url for anyone willing to play it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=413_sACCuH8. It is worth a few minutes.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:07 am
by STEVIE
Sinned wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:22 pm I once saw a short talk by Quita Christison on this subject and one of the points in it was to STOP - See The Other Person. Not to make a judgement based on first impressions. Here's the url for anyone willing to play it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=413_sACCuH8. It is worth a few minutes.
Dennis
Quite excellent actually.
We have a whole training set at work on unconscious bias and that beats it hands down.
Steve.

Re: Observations.....

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:31 pm
by TheEngineer
JeffB1959 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:27 am Oh, there's no doubt that people DO notice, that's to be expected, but, like denimini said, such encounters last only a moment and then it's over, they go their way and you go yours.
Yes, and it's the same for me. By which I mean that I notice al the time what other people are wearing. I actually find clothing fascinating and enjoy "people watching". As I go about I observe people and sometimes the observation is momentary and my eyes move on if what I see does not register as noteworthy. But sometimes my eyes settle on something that looks good and so I may look a bit longer and enjoy it, and maybe smile a little. I rarely dwell on something that doesn't please me.
So when we walk about in clothing the wearing of which makes us nervous, and we see eyes on us, maybe they are eyes of approval, just taking in something a bit unexpected, then moving on in acceptance.