Can a skirt ever look masculine

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby Jim » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:13 pm

pelmut wrote:Many transgender people start off by thinking they are transvestites, but then realise that they don't get the sexual kick that characterises what we usually think of as transvestite.  After exploring further they then begin to discover their true self - and sometimes that turns out to be transgender.  

That's a more deterministic view than I take. We have our genes, hormones, and other biology, but I think we each have a lot to do in creating and transforming our true selves, not just discovering.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby pelmut » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:50 pm

Jim wrote:
pelmut wrote:Many transgender people start off by thinking they are transvestites, but then realise that they don't get the sexual kick that characterises what we usually think of as transvestite.  After exploring further they then begin to discover their true self - and sometimes that turns out to be transgender.  

That's a more deterministic view than I take. We have our genes, hormones, and other biology, but I think we each have a lot to do in creating and transforming our true selves, not just discovering.

It's very difficult because I had been brought up with similar beliefs - but then I began to realise that they didn't explain what was happening in my particular circumstances.  At first I though it was something wrong with just me, but then I discovered others in the same situation - then I discovered it had a name and was a recognised natural condition which wasn't much talked about at the time.

The real choice we have is what we do with what we have got - I have seen so much misery caused by others trying to fight this condition and pretend they haven't got it that I decided the best thing to do was to acknowledge it and just get on with life.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby crfriend » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:24 pm

pelmut wrote:The real choice we have is what we do with what we have got - I have seen so much misery caused by others trying to fight this condition and pretend they haven't got it that I decided the best thing to do was to acknowledge it and just get on with life.

There is great truth in this, but turning that truth into action can be a dicey proposition at times. Worse is the problem is asymmetric between genetic guys and genetic women. In the latter, nobody bats an eyelash if they're very masculine, but in the former, let a guy show any supposedly "feminine" characteristic (say, empathy) and he's going to catch stick for it. All it seems that men are allowed now are all the bad things about being male; the women have captured sole rights to the good things

So, absolutely, do the very best you can with what you've got. Be proud of it. Develop it. And don't let the naysayers chip away at you ("Non illegitimi carborundum"). Also, recall that what was perfectly normal (for men) 30 years ago now solidly lands a guy in trans-* land.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby mishawakaskirt » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:33 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:......
One unbelievable story...One day I wore a wore a Traditional Scottish Kilt , as a gentleman is taught
to wear his Kilt within his Kilt Wearing Community. ......The following day I wore
the same outfit with a below the Knee straight skirt, in the same Tartan. My local friends could not
tell the difference between my Kilt and my Skirt.......It is all part of the perception of images.

The answer to the question ... " Why does he dress like that ? " was given as
" They all dress like that where he come from....! " .............. I say again ..."Just go for it "............


Your on to something, most people see a man in a kilt and stop with the following thought "it's a skirt"
Most people don't see or care to even know the difference between a skirt and a actual kilt.

For example it was not until I Started looking to buy my first kilt that I even knew it wrapped around and fastened with belt straps. I assumed it was like all other skirts, just tartan and just pleated in the back. That some how made it a kilt and a man's skirt.
The history of the kilt is very fascinating. It's sad that most people just dismiss it as a skirt and move on. I venture to say most people won't know the difference between a kilt and a tartan skirt.

Two years ago at a Celtic fair I saw two college aged boys walking around in tartan skirts, zero pleating what so ever. No one laughed, pointed, made fun of them. I'm sure some of the other kilties noticed just like I did, but none bothered to say anything thing. The only thing a man in a tartan skirt has to worry about is the kilt police. They go after kilties for a lot less. Heaven forbid it's a tartan skirt.

Part of the population that cares enough to register seeing you in a kilt or skirt is probably going to call it the wrong thing anyways. Multiple accounts of this have been reported by other skirt Café members over the years.
So wear that tartan!

Found a webpage that give a nice description of the difference between a skirt and kilt. http://www.differencebetween.net/miscel ... and-skirt/
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Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby r.m.anderson » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:36 am

Thank you Mishawakaskirt for that interesting DIFFERENCES LINK:

Found a webpage that give a nice description of the difference between a skirt and kilt. http://www.differencebetween.net/miscel ... and-skirt/

Look at the bottom of the web page for more DIFFERENCES between items objects clothing etc. it seems to never end - - - - -
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby weeladdie18 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:28 pm

r.m.anderson wrote:eBay has auctions and illustrations of the Fustanella and jerkin

Fustanella is or was a Greek military uniform - the jerkin as described by cr and others.

LINK to more illustrations of the Fustanella:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sea ... hs-att_001

I view this garment as a short skirt with multi-mini-micro-pleats that flares out with a wide hem - no petticoat required.

Thanks R.M. Looks good....a bit like a shirt and sunray pleated skirt.....I cannot decide if this is a
one piece or two piece oufit.....
Certainly need a regular wash in white colour....this makes for impractical use.
Say 40 pleats in a 40 inch waist .....at the hem the circumference looks more than a circle skirt....
Does seem to be an odd historical shape.....My guess is that this was possibly cut as a circle skirt
from the top of the shoulder seam and belted at the waist...possibly with buttons across the shoulders.
Is there any new supplier......? ........looks as if the garment is worn with Roman style
below the knee draws......If a waistcoat is worn how is the the slim shape above the waist
produced.......? Certainly a unique shape.....
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby crfriend » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:33 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:[The fustanella l]ooks good....a bit like a shirt and sunray pleated skirt.....I cannot decide if this is a one piece or two piece oufit.....

It's decidedly multi-piece with the top and bottom parts separate.
Certainly need a regular wash in white colour....this makes for impractical use.

That depends on one's own level of fastidiousness. I recall one hilarious time when I wore a pure white outfit to a place where I was flirting with the hostess and committed the error of ordering a pizza for lunch. The bartender brought my selection and asked if there was anything else I needed. I glanced down and asked, "How about a drop-cloth?" Much laughter was had and I'm not sure if it was he or I that pointed up that the choice of a red-sauce pizza wasn't possibly one of my poorer choices in life. In any event, I ate my pizza and my whites didn't wind up with red splotches -- which amazed the hostess. And, no, dammit, nothing ever came of that.
Say 40 pleats in a 40 inch waist .....at the hem the circumference looks more than a circle skirt....

I think the historically-accurate ones have four hundred pleats as that's a significant number in Greek history (and I cannot recall the details at the moment).

It seems to be primarily military in the modern world; if it wasn't, I'd be very tempted to procure one (likely at an eye-watering price) and have contacts that could get a real one.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby Daryl » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:08 pm

pelmut wrote:On a slightly lighter note:

What is the difference between Transvestite and Transgender?     ... generally about three years.

Many transgender people start off by thinking they are transvestites, but then realise that they don't get the sexual kick that characterises what we usually think of as transvestite.  After exploring further they then begin to discover their true self - and sometimes that turns out to be transgender.  


And at least some transvestites, who behave as drag queens, are actually using drag, which is a caricature of womanhood meant to be entertaining, as their excuse for indulging their urges to be and express feminimity. It's like me using my single Scottish gene to "explain" my kilt wearing when really I just want to avoid pants. Excuses, "reasons", are perceived as making social transgressions easier to be forgiven for.

Personally, I am looking forward to a time when we are past needing excuses or "reasons" for our differences.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby Fred in Skirts » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Daryl wrote:Personally, I am looking forward to a time when we are past needing excuses or "reasons" for our differences.

Now that is pure thought. I too am waiting for just that, however I am afraid I will be long gone to my rewards when it happens. :(
Fred :kiltdance:

:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not"
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby Daryl » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:55 am

Fred in Skirts wrote:
Daryl wrote:Personally, I am looking forward to a time when we are past needing excuses or "reasons" for our differences.

Now that is pure thought. I too am waiting for just that, however I am afraid I will be long gone to my rewards when it happens. :(


I know what you mean, but sometimes the change we want creeps up on us slowly and we just don't notice it. Something to hope for, and something to make happen, all in one convenient package.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby stevelous » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:21 pm

The real differance between a Kilt and a Skirt is men wear Kilts and both men and women wear Skirts.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby STEVIE » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:26 pm

Hi Stevelous,
I have known several women who wear The Kilt.
They do it in the same manner that some ladies prefer male trousers.
The real difference between The Kilt and a skirt is about £600.00.
Steve.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby jjjjohanne » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:31 am

I feel like pencil skirts, like yours, look better on me. I think it is similar to the look of an apron or a towel, which look good on men.
I also feel like ladies' tops that would look OK with my men's wear work best for me.
In my opinion, you are on the right track with that outfit.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby weeladdie18 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:44 am

Daryl wrote:
pelmut wrote:On a slightly lighter note:

What is the difference between Transvestite and Transgender?     ... generally about three years.

Many transgender people start off by thinking they are transvestites, but then realise that they don't get the sexual kick that characterises what we usually think of as transvestite.  After exploring further they then begin to discover their true self - and sometimes that turns out to be transgender.  


And at least some transvestites, who behave as drag queens, are actually using drag, which is a caricature of womanhood meant to be entertaining, as their excuse for indulging their urges to be and express feminimity. It's like me using my single Scottish gene to "explain" my kilt wearing when really I just want to avoid pants. Excuses, "reasons", are perceived as making social transgressions easier to be forgiven for.

Personally, I am looking forward to a time when we are past needing excuses or "reasons" for our differences.


I am not quite sure how a drag queen and a T.V. can be confused.....As far as I am aware a drag queen is a man who wishes to appear
as a woman by wearing a woman's clothes. The whole Rig and excess make up is no more than a butch
cross dressing pantomime act. Look at David Bowie and his famous record sleeve cover....
Was it...... " The Man Who Saved The World ".........?

Somewhere I have clarified the Shakespearian Theatrical Origins of Drag.

The T.V. however has a wish to appear as a Woman,......Please note I am stating the English word , " Woman " and not "Lady " .......
One is often a slut and a carrier of the pox , and perhaps lives in the local hoare house ; ......
perhaps " The House of The Rising Son "..................
"Oh Mother go tell your children, not to do what I have Done , Spend your life in sin and misery , in the House of The Rising Son. "

The lady is well bred and quite charming....." She has rings on her fingers and bells on her toes. ...................
She will have music , wherever she goes. "

It is perhaps unfortunate that The T.V. will never biologically become a member of the female of the species....

That is as much as I can say within the remit of our Skirt Café. Gentlemen , we are treading on very dangerous ground........
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Postby Dust » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:44 am

Drag is a caricature of the female form. It is a stage act, and is understood by all to be just that, an act.

Transgenderism is an attempt to become the other sex. There is no end, no stepping off stage and shedding the costume. It demands to be taken seriously, and for everyone else to play along.
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