Can a skirt ever look masculine

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
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weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

moonshadow wrote:
crfriend wrote:That's a medieval garment known as a jerkin
Getting close, however upon punching that in my search engine under "images", I find that the torso is about right, but Joan seems to be sporting the "skirt" part as well. It's a difficult outfit to find online (for sale anyway) The tunic doesn't quite nail it either because it has pleats, which by the way makes the whole ensemble quite bouncy it seems.

I'm not so much interested in the chain-mail, but some nice tights and a close fitting long sleeve shirt I believe would set the whole look off nicely!

I want Joan's dress... I shall accept no substitutes! :twisted:
If you want that style of outfit, U.K. School Uniform suppliers market off the peg, box pleated skirts
in school colours. These skirts look different to a knife edge pleated skirt, or even an adult female
sunray pleated skirt........Algy's style of a big polo collar on a long sweater, worn under the skirt
might work.

A rerun of your video might clarify exactly what the lassie was wearing on her legs...was she wearing
loose stitch woollen tights or chain mail ?

My guess is that was a motion picture recorded on 16 mm at possibly 32 frames per second.
the whole movie illusion is created by memory perception.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

The centre button sleeveless leather jerkin was still on army issue back in the late seventies.
Worn by fitters for working out of doors in the Winter on military equipment
This type of garment may be available from government surplus disposal stores...
Try ....Field Textiles U.K.

Please note the leather studded garment worn by the male standing to the right of Joan.
His garment is fastened below his armpits with a modern style buckle ......

Perhaps the "Man in a Skirt " could try wearing this type of garment with an off the peg
American style Utilitykilt

A box pleated leather dress might be more fetching
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r.m.anderson
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by r.m.anderson »

eBay has auctions and illustrations of the Fustanella and jerkin

Fustanella is or was a Greek military uniform - the jerkin as described by cr and others.

LINK to more illustrations of the Fustanella:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sea ... hs-att_001

I view this garment as a short skirt with multi-mini-micro-pleats that flares out with a wide hem - no petticoat required.
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Sinned
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Sinned »

I'm cutting in a bit late on this one but I do have to disagree with some of KellyRain's disposition on the masculine skirt.

"What makes a skirt feminine? 1. Cut and shape. 2. How tightly it fits. 3. Length. 4. Color can be important. 5. Type of pleats. 6. Type of slits or cuts.

I think a good masculine skirt is about a few things.

1. Fabric and texture: I think fine wool, rough wool, canvas, interesting cotton blends are all great. They range from casual to formal and can be made to look like working men's fabrics from the 1920s that has a rough finish and looks lived in. That makes for a great foundation."

I have skirts that are made from polyacetate and other similar materials making them floaty and twirly. Even having sequins on them. Polycotton is another material that it's difficult to get away from. There are members here that wear similar and still look like men.

"Problem is only high fashion makers are doing vintage type fabrics so far. But you can find women's kilts and skirts done in these fabrics if you look hard enough. Especially heavy cottons or linens for summer."

I can pick up skirts in heavy materials from mainline stores but prices put me off.

"2. Shape: I stay away from basic A frame, body con, tight pencil skirts and loose pleats because they tend to look feminine unless they are made of a manly fabric. Which is rare. I think shape really defines whether a skirt can look masculine or not. So I look for shapes that tie back to ancient and old men's skirts."

I keep away from anything straight and absolutely LOVE A-line which most of my skirts are. Bodycon can be difficult but I have some of those too.
There are skirters here that love pencil skirts and rock them but not for me. I like my stride unfettered.


"a. Kilt - No brainer
b. Long straight skirts, not too tight, not too A shape. Just a simple line. Not in a shiny fabric. Stretchy is ok but needs to have structure. Low slit for walking or a folded pleat to allow the skirt to stretch. No deep slits."

So now you're saying that A-line are ok just not too wide? Well I have skater skirts with a very wide hem and love them.

"c. Knee length pencil skirt. Not tight. Straight simple. Folds or 1-2 pleats instead of a slit so you can walk."

AFAIK most pencil skirts have slits, of necessity. Pencils with pleats, perhaps some of you pencillers can enlighten me on this?

"d. Over the knee pleated skirt or simple box skirts can be manly if they are the right material. This gets back to Greek, Roman and other old styles. Simple and manly. Not too high waist so they accent your manly waist."

Not too much to disagree with here.

"e. Long flowing. This is tricky. Has to be a skirt with heavy pleats, lots of very tight small pleats or slow widening at the bottom. Floor length. This gets back to ethnic designs from all over the world. But in an elegant fabric it will be very manly."

Carl may find difficulty with your thoughts. I have some ankle length broomstick type skirts that don't fall within your remit.

"3. Color
Grey, black, brown, more black, navy, dark earth tones. I avoid anything even vaguely pink or pastel, light colors (I just don't like them much) or colors that look very feminine. I tend to go for darker heavy colors in winter and simple summer neutral shades in summer."

Now I would have to blow you away. I LOVE bright colours and have skirts in black, bright blue and other shades, brown ( various shades ), green, purple, red, white, yellow among others. Nowt wrong with colour. In fact I shop on t'other side purely to get the bright colours, tops, bottoms, whatever.

"But it isn't just the skirt that makes an outfit manly or not. The upper is critical. I see young Japanese guys trying to wear the same uppers that girls do here and so they lose the masculine lines and look. My wife comments that some of the guys look like their Moms, though unintentionally.
To make an outfit masculine you need to care about the uppers. Your usual manly shirts are fine. Add a vintage vest, a shorter (not too short) length blazer that is the same color or a good matching color to the skirt. It looks masculine and it can be a very good way to assure it looks manly. "

I and many others on this site wear women's tops - cami's, blouses, T-shirts, jumpers. Some of my favourites are feminine. Of course I wear button up shirts as well.

"Shoes. Working man's boots. Trickers from the UK, Dr. Martins, Monkey Boots are look great with the shorter skirts. If you like taller boots Dr. Martins or logger boots are great. Especially in winter. For dressy long skirts or dressy kilts go with a nice dress shoe. Over the ankle is better. I avoid high heels or flats."
Creepers or monkey boots instantly make a skirt look manly.
Footwear has a few threads on this. Heels are ok, pumps, Mary Janes, why not? If you're going to wear a skirt and top, tights then why not the shoes?
I do have to admit that I still have this bridge to cross over.


Finally, your attitude.

Probably THE most important factor to getting around almost invisibly. Agreed.

So that's my take and my wardrobe reflects that. In the end, a man wearing a skirt will choose something that reflects attitude, character, taste and upbringing
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Grok
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Grok »

moonshadow wrote: But I wouldn't say it's masculine. Also, understand that many of us here are writing our own rules as to what's masculine or not. But if you want my honest opinion, I don't think it looks masculine at all. I wouldn't say it's over the top "feminine" either, it's just somewhere in the middle.
It occurred to me that I have a skirt that is somewhere in the middle, or in between. A Macabi knee length, which is designed to be worn by both men and women. Subjectively, it doesn't seem be particularly masculine, or particularly feminine, or perhaps it could be described as undefined. I reviewed the images in the Macabi web site, and then I realized that the garment looks like a shapeless sack.

I would contrast this with something else I have, the Running Kilt. Basically a short A-line design, the garment is angular, plain, and dark. The Running Kilt certainly seems masculine to me.
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Fred in Skirts »

weeladdie18 wrote:My guess is that was a motion picture recorded on 16 mm at possibly 32 frames per second.
the whole movie illusion is created by memory perception.
If the movie was made in the USA it was shot on 35 MM film at 32 FPS or possibly 70 MM film at 24 FPS. These were the standards of Hollywood movie producers. If it was going to be shown in another format IE: 16 MM or 8 MM it was then printed to these formats. Most all movie theaters in the USA were equipped with 35 MM projectors or later with 70 MM projectors.
Now many are equipped with digital Hi Def projectors and more are being upgraded all of the time.

Fred

An old timey projectionist with those 20 minute reels and crossover switches.
Fred :kiltdance:

"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle."


"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by STEVIE »

I think I will throw this into the mix.
Old hat for some but the question masculine or feminine?
If I am honest, I don't believe there is a definitive answer.
My only aim is to please myself as to my clothing.
Steve.
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crfriend
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:Old hat for some but the question masculine or feminine?
Masculine. Face it, facial hair is a major give-away, the sporran another, and the long jacket yet one more.

I love the lettering on the low beam -- and it looks like someone may have knocked into it in the past given the missing left half of the "M". And whomever did that, if it was down to a collision, must've had a few on board. There's a beam like that which I have intersected with at the place I hang on weekends and am tempted to letter it "Mind the Gap" just for fun (I know enough to duck). I don't have to be wearing heels to hit it, but those certainly aggravate the situation.
My only aim is to please myself as to my clothing.
That's as it should be.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

Fred in Skirts wrote:
weeladdie18 wrote:My guess is that was a motion picture recorded on 16 mm at possibly 32 frames per second.
the whole movie illusion is created by memory perception.
If the movie was made in the USA it was shot on 35 MM film at 32 FPS or possibly 70 MM film at 24 FPS. These were the standards of Hollywood movie producers. If it was going to be shown in another format IE: 16 MM or 8 MM it was then printed to these formats. Most all movie theaters in the USA were equipped with 35 MM projectors or later with 70 MM projectors.
Now many are equipped with digital Hi Def projectors and more are being upgraded all of the time.

Fred

An old timey projectionist with those 20 minute reels and crossover switches.[/quote

Thanks for those technical comments . I was involved with projecting 16 mm educational films.
Still photographic slides were taken on 35 mm colour reversal film and sent back to Kodak or
Agfa for processing....Kodak slides were returned in cardboard mounts ..Agfa were returned
in blue outer and white inner plastic mounts...Slide projectors carried the 36 slides produced
from roll of film in a cassette , or a circular drum holding more slides.

This is probably worthy of an Off Topic Thread...I missed a lecture a couple of weeks ago ..
I have already seen the lecture twice...Cornish ship wrecks of the 1880's shown on Glass Plate
Lantern Slides....I found a film on the internet..Jacques Causteau and Diddi Dumas.
1940's underwater film made before the invention of the wet suit and the aqua lung.
It was claimed they could free dive for 2.5 minutes...all the shots were put together as a movie.

I found a set of C.D.s of early Jacques Cousteau Movies in a charity shop...the story goes on
weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

Stevie....I could non resist this answer to the question in the title of the post .....

" The bearded lady "...........Definitely male............perhaps a bit of the local colour....grey...

"I think I have done my head in " .....Now young man , Mind your head.
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weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

Fred in Skirts wrote:
weeladdie18 wrote:My guess is that was a motion picture recorded on 16 mm at possibly 32 frames per second.
the whole movie illusion is created by memory perception.
If the movie was made in the USA it was shot on 35 MM film at 32 FPS or possibly 70 MM film at 24 FPS. These were the standards of Hollywood movie producers. If it was going to be shown in another format IE: 16 MM or 8 MM it was then printed to these formats. Most all movie theaters in the USA were equipped with 35 MM projectors or later with 70 MM projectors.
Now many are equipped with digital Hi Def projectors and more are being upgraded all of the time.

Fred

An old timey projectionist with those 20 minute reels and crossover switches.
Thank you Fred for your technical correction...The movie would have been shot on 35 mm film.
We showed commercially made educational films on 16 mm stock.
I have not worked with movie projectors for over 40 years...I will admit I have got my Knickers
in twist............
One lecturer came to me with a problem...she had taken a reel of 16 mm film off the projector
and put the reel on a round topped stool......The whole reel of film had unwound itself off the reel
and onto the floor around the legs of the stool....just another day.............weeladdie.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

A serious reply to Stevie's Photo. Interesting garment with the Tartan or Cheque pattern
worn on the bias.
The rest looks male . I would wear a wide belt with a large shiney buckle.

I would be curious and ask the wearer about the unusual origin of the lower garment.

I have found that the lassies say that I am looking smart if I wear a collar and tie.

Remember that the Lassies see a nice colourful male tie almost at their eye level.
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weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

As the O.P. , Algie has asked , Can a skirt ever look masculine ?
My response would be that the wearer's skirt outfit would either make him look masculine
or feminine as a wearer of the outfit......This would indicate how the wearer wishes to appear
in his skirt outfit.............Does the wearer wish to appear as
1....A man in a skirt outfit
2 A man in a gender neutral skirt outfit.
3 A man in a female skirt outfit..
4 A man who wishes to appear as a female in her skirt outfit.

I interpret number 4 as being outside of the Skirt Café Remit. .......
If I remove Number 2 this will simplify the choice.

So the question becomes ; Does a man look masculine appearing as a man in a skirt outfit ?
or Does a man look masculine in a man in a female skirt outfit ?

This leads me to believe there is a difference between
1.........the man who looks masculine in a skirt outfit

2 ....... the man who can look masculine in a female skirt outfit..........

The question then becomes
" How does the Man in a Skirt look masculine in his chosen style of his skirt outfit ? "
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weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

One of the confusing issues is that at least two lassies have said that they like the skirt outfit
I was wearing, ....
but it was not clarified if I looked masculine or feminine in my Skirt Outfit

May I please remind my friends that the word " Feminine " is still used in the U.K.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by STEVIE »

Hi Guys,
I did have a wee bit of tongue in cheek with this. I know full well that there is no "femininity" in the appearance of that outfit.
However, it is still regarded as femme by some people and therefore unacceptable for me to wear in public.
Weeladdie, to answer your question regarding the "lower garment". It is, in fact, a kilt. Please note that I have deliberately used lower case, It is a bespoke item that I had made some years ago and I coined the title "Nukilt"(new kilt) for it. The design is wholly based on a standard asymmetric female skirt. The fastenings are at the right hand side which correspond with a standard modern Kilt intended as male attire. The apron is plain Harris tweed and the rear is one my family tartans.
As far as I know, it is still unique and I doubt that it will ever be copied now. I will also say that it has drawn many compliments and good comments in the times that I have worn it. The photo was taken at a birthday party about 4 years ago.

Steve.
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