Can a skirt ever look masculine

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
weeladdie18
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

Moon ,I certainly feel your picture of a Joan of Arc as a medieval warrior is worthy of consideration
as the basis for a M.I.S. costume. ...The Costume has a look of the Swinging Sixties or later short
female skirt revival....Perhaps a date for the original film work of your video might give us a clue.

You might be interested in googling Joan of Arc to see how she might have dressed if she had lead
an army on horse back.....There is an artist's impression that she wore a long dress and the top half
of a suit of armour.
However you might be interested in the Academic Theory as to why she heard voices and had visions
of a sword buried in the ground.
It has been suggested that judgement was made and she was burnt as a witch for political reasons
rather than for her spiritual visions.....interesting information.
History suggests she was born a peasant girl and was burnt at the stake before 1450.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

moonshadow wrote:
Grok wrote:If he is inclined to create an outfit "in the middle", perhaps he should be fine with that. After all, members are inclined to push boundaries.
He can wear whatever he wants, and I also realize that what defines "masculine" is a matter of arbitrary opinion, however based on my understanding of western societal norms with regards to this type of thing, I believe most would agree that the outfit doesn't fit the bill of "masculine".

Perhaps it time it will be, as what defines "masculine" and "feminine" are moving targets. But today, I just don't see it.

And that's okay. We're allowed to wear whatever we want. I took the OP as a call for opinions, and I simply delivered mine. No malice was intended.

To further my opinion, I believe when we restrict ourselves to what we perceive as "masculine" then I believe we are missing out on the essence of male skirt wearing. To me anyway, a big part of the fun is to buck back societal expectations that we stay within our prescribed genderfied clothing and gender roles. If I were really gung-ho about maintaining a "masculine" skirted look, i.e. it meant that much to me, then again, I'd just wear a kilt.

But that's just me...
I would agree with Moon on his post....A quick glance at a male will clarify if he is dressed as a man
in a skirt , or if he looks feminine whilst dressed in his skirt....my vision is for a " Man in a Skirt "
to wear a skirt which makes him look masculine......that is my vision.

In my book, any man who wishes to appear as a woman would wear an "off the peg " female outfit.
The difficult issue is that if a male wears neutral gender female clothes , he may or may not
appear to be wearing female clothes and therefore look feminine.... The assessment of his personal
attire is always in the eye of the beholder....................

It is my opinion that if a male wishes to go out on the street wearing " a girl's skirt outfit " ,
that is fine by me.....
However he may or may not be stepping outside of the remit of the Skirt Café if he is deemed
by the Moderators to be in breach of the rules of the forum and other members consider his posts
to be offensive.
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crfriend
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by crfriend »

weeladdie18 wrote:[...] A quick glance at a male will clarify if he is dressed as a man in a skirt , or if he looks feminine whilst dressed in his skirt....my vision is for a " Man in a Skirt " to wear a skirt which makes him look masculine......that is my vision.
The problem here is that what is considered "masculine" by modern western society is so stiflingly small that it's almost a singularity. The range of accepted looks for western males is strictly divided lower garments, usually of some form of low-grade denim or derivative, and for more formal events (which seldom happen to the every-man any longer) a suit. The last bright period for men's clothing was in the 1970s, and the time before that was before the French Revolution.

If we are to consign ourselves to being slavishly "masculine" we're sentencing ourselves to a self-constructed prison -- which, if one actually thinks about it, is pretty moronic. Worse, the cell we put ourselves into is shrinking by the day; soon we won't be able to breathe because the walls are pressing up against us. This place is about breaking down those walls, not reinforcing them; there are plenty of people working on building and moving them already.
In my book, any man who wishes to appear as a woman would wear an "off the peg " female outfit. The difficult issue is that if a male wears neutral gender female clothes , he may or may not appear to be wearing female clothes and therefore look feminine.... The assessment of his personal attire is always in the eye of the beholder.
It's jeans or khakis for you, then. Junk the kilt; that's just an affectation; and "man up" and put some trousers on!

As has been put forward before, it's possible to be entirely male and wear a non-divided lower garment. It's been amply demonstrated. It's not un-manly, and certainly not "feminine" (an obsolete term, likely considered by many of both sexes to be insulting). And once others get their heads around the idea most are surprisingly supportive. The key is in how one helps them "get over the hump", and that's better done by behaviour and demeanour than what one has on.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Grok »

Even if we restricted ourselves to garments associated with masculinity, there are options other than kilts:

Sarongs. Fustanellas. Those miniskirt things worn by soccer teams in Guatemala......
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Big and Bashful »

What mini-skirt things worn by football teams in Guatamala? I don't follow football, but that has got me curious! Oh and I am sorry, a fustanella looks kind of ridiculous in my eyes, not sure why, but to me they really aren't a masculine look, still, each to their own, whatever that means!
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Grok »

The thread regarding the Guatemala garment is under News/Advocacy (go to #2). The first link no longer works, but the second one does.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by lazerr »

The team from Nahuala, a municipality in the southwestern highland Guatemalan province of Solola, was first assembled 34 years ago and is known throughout the region for the skirt-type garment the players wear.

Known as a "coxtar," it bears similarities to a Scottish kilt.
Here is the link to one of the stories.https://www.efe.com/efe/english/varios/ ... 69-3098881
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Savanna_Bananas Baseball team

Post by lazerr »

SavannahBananas.JPG
I think this looks masculine. It is the Savannah Bananas baseball team, and evidently a kilt is their uniform.


Here is the link to the story
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2018/0 ... hoto-video
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

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Big and Bashful wrote:Oh and I am sorry, a fustanella looks kind of ridiculous in my eyes, not sure why, but to me they really aren't a masculine look, still, each to their own, whatever that means!
It's probably the pom-poms worn on the toes of the shoes that sets your teeth on edge. The all-up rig does that to me as well, but with regular shoes the lower garment is a very nice micro-pleated skirt.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by partlyscot »

I love the tunic and tights look, have got some outfits like that, but have not been out in them yet. Wish I could find something like footed leggings, or very opaque pantyhose, that fit. So far ladies stuff will not stay up, or binds uncomfortably. Haven't tried any of the men's stuff yet, because the colors and patterns do not appeal. Even regular leggings need some modification to stay in place. I may just put braces (suspenders) on under the tunic.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by Grok »

moonshadow wrote:On "masculine" skirted looks, though it's technically not a skirt, but appears as more of a tunic, whilst watching a VHS tape "Joan of Arc" I must admit, I was taken by this particular style:

Image

Interestingly, she's the only female character wearing such an outfit, probably because she's the only female character engaged in active combat. All the same, the style strikes me as mighty cool! And sent me on the google hunt to see where I might find something similar to sport out amongst the wolves later on....

Pardon the graininess of the image... VHS's don't pause as clearly as DVD's do it seems....
I can imagine someone being inspired by Joan's outfit, and designing a pleated skirt for men.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by crfriend »

Grok wrote:I can imagine someone being inspired by Joan's outfit, and designing a pleated skirt for men.
That's a medieval garment known as a jerkin (if I'm not mistaken) and was frequently worn in combat made of leather and formed part of the armour.

Chain-mail is brutally heavy, and though it does move with the wearer requires a layer underneath because of all the mechanical action that's going on. While mail could stop a cut from a sword, it was less useful in defending against thrusts from narrow reinforced swords which were introduced to combat the armour-form (these eventually evolved into rapiers). I cannot imaging wearing a pair of trousers made of the stuff. An arm-load is bad enough. The skirted part of the jerkin was there to help glancing slashes slide harmlessly out of the way.

The image is not historically accurate. But, this was from a film. Also, to a straight guy, a woman will almost always look better in anything than a guy will, and the female lead definitely looks good in that.

On VHS... It's worth occasionally exposing one's self to technologies of the past. Whilst perfectly-adjusted, full-bandwidth, NTSC is capable of remarkable things, consumer-grade videotape was never "perfectly adjusted and full bandwidth". A proper NTSC signal has about 5 MHz worth of analogue bandwidth available to it, and that has to carry both luminance (brightness) and chrominance (hue/tint). VHS yields about 3 1/2 MHZ of usable bandwidth and the helical-scan technology of the consumer-grade made precision adjustments virtually impossible. Beta did a bit better and could yield close to 4 MHz, but suffered the same scanning problems. The only cassette technology that was close to broadcast-grade was Sony's U-matic which used 3/4" tape and a helical head close to six inches in diameter; that gave about 4 1/2 MHz. These were popular with news crews for years until Hi-8 came about, and that was a fleeting instant before digital swept all the mechanical stuff away.

Yes, I have VHS decks (including one that was pre-integrated-circuit), I have a Betamax deck, and I have a U-matic deck. I believe all need substantial restoration work to be operable thanks to the environment they used to live in. The U-matic deck weighs a good 50 pounds...
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by beachlion »

crfriend wrote:
Big and Bashful wrote:Oh and I am sorry, a fustanella looks kind of ridiculous in my eyes, not sure why, but to me they really aren't a masculine look, still, each to their own, whatever that means!
It's probably the pom-poms worn on the toes of the shoes that sets your teeth on edge. The all-up rig does that to me as well, but with regular shoes the lower garment is a very nice micro-pleated skirt.
Those fustanellas may look quite feminine but don't let it fool you. The Palace Guard is an elite unit and their soldiers have a rigorous training behind them.
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:That's a medieval garment known as a jerkin
Getting close, however upon punching that in my search engine under "images", I find that the torso is about right, but Joan seems to be sporting the "skirt" part as well. It's a difficult outfit to find online (for sale anyway) The tunic doesn't quite nail it either because it has pleats, which by the way makes the whole ensemble quite bouncy it seems.

I'm not so much interested in the chain-mail, but some nice tights and a close fitting long sleeve shirt I believe would set the whole look off nicely!

I want Joan's dress... I shall accept no substitutes! :twisted:
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Re: Can a skirt ever look masculine

Post by weeladdie18 »

partlyscot wrote:I love the tunic and tights look, have got some outfits like that, but have not been out in them yet. Wish I could find something like footed leggings, or very opaque pantyhose, that fit. So far ladies stuff will not stay up, or binds uncomfortably. Haven't tried any of the men's stuff yet, because the colors and patterns do not appeal. Even regular leggings need some modification to stay in place. I may just put braces (suspenders) on under the tunic.
Perhaps an "off the peg " style would be to wear thick male winter socks under male long johns in black
or black female leggings. ....today I wore this style of attire with my knee length flat soled ,knee length,
zip up boots. I was well protected against the cold wind as I was wearing a below the knee full skirt ,
a long thick male sweater, a sports jacket and a wind proof sailing jacket. ....weeladdie
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