skirtcafe.org

I am a Newbie who has had many years adventures happily wearing my Kilts and Skirts

I am at the crossroads regarding the wearing dresses in public as a male style of clothing...I would like to share
my thoughts yesterday evening with my friends....I am referencing Sinned' s comments as his track record may
be or may not be similar to mine.

As a preamble, there was a time when one could only explore wearing skirts by mixing with the T V world and
appearing as a female.

I broke down those barriers by appearing successfully appearing at a Local T V Christmas party as a Man in a Skirt.
Please remember I am talking about my experiences as a Man in a Skirt, .....not as a man appearing as a T V.
This is where the border of our activities lies.......

Yesterday I was gardening, in the sun, dressed as a male. I then drove to a local beauty spot to watch the sunset.
I did not choose to take off my gardening trousers and put on a clean skirt.
My object was just to watch the sunset. A group of young summer visitors arrived and one of the party took my interest.
She was not dressed as the modern female style... wearing trousers. She was probably twenty to thirty years old
and was wearing a loose fifties or sixties style full dress just below her knees. Worn with a cardigan , flat soled shoes
and turned down ankle socks.

This is a style in which I am wearing my summer skirts at the moment.

The lady then put on her anorak and scarf and joined the party. My thought was I could have dressed in that style tonight
and perhaps I could have become a local folk hero ..... or I could have just blended into the background..........

Please remember this was only the start of a sunset experience which drifted into my lifetime's skirt wearing experience.
....weeladdie

So what kind of reactions did you get?

Ralph wrote:So what kind of reactions did you get?

I think the point was that on that occasion he was not wearing the more feminine style, but just his usual gardening style, but is now considering a similar style for himself. I totally get that because when I see women wearing those pretty but comfortable-looking styles, I feel jealousy. The problem for men is how to do that without seeming to be merely transvestic.

It's one thing to be daring -- "heroic" -- about challenging norms, but quite another to be perceived as unnatural whilst doing so. In these times, those norms are pretty open to being challenged. In some ways, the problem here is more a design problem than a social one.

Daryl wrote:...It's one thing to be daring -- "heroic" -- about challenging norms, but quite another to be perceived as unnatural whilst doing so. In these times, those norms are pretty open to being challenged. In some ways, the problem here is more a design problem than a social one.

You can't control what others think.

But if they don't like what you're wearing, it's their problem, not yours.

And how do you know if they're actually thinking what you think they're thinking?

My dress for today.


Not bad

Rokje wrote:My dress for today.
Not bad

Nice look.

Nothing wrong with that look. It's a dress I would wear with black or grey tights. You shouldn't get any reaction from the G.P. in that.

Caultron wrote:

Daryl wrote:...It's one thing to be daring -- "heroic" -- about challenging norms, but quite another to be perceived as unnatural whilst doing so. In these times, those norms are pretty open to being challenged. In some ways, the problem here is more a design problem than a social one.

You can't control what others think.

But if they don't like what you're wearing, it's their problem, not yours.

And how do you know if they're actually thinking what you think they're thinking?

Yeah, well, we can and do manage the impression we make on others -- all of us almost all the time. Ultimately we can't control what others think, sure, but we can sure as heck decide whether or not to give them opportunities for reactions we don't want, and encourage reactions we like. Social isolation is a choice most of us don't make.

It's not a matter of whether they "like" what one is wearing.

I know what others think by the usual means...the same means I use to a lesser extent with my cats. I see faces and learn what they mean, and observe reactions to different things. I also know what I might think about any particular thing, which remarkably puts me in tune with other people quite often, especially those who live in a similar culture. It's really not hard to estimate what others are probably thinking and feeling.

The real question is how much I care about what others think. I don't care enough to be so desperate to conform that I won't experiment or stretch the boundaries of perceptions. I do care enough to not want to be seen and treated as if I was a complete social hermit (aka nutcase), and I care enough that I would like it if once in a while someone felt they might try something new for themselves after seeing me do it.

Daryl wrote:...The real question is how much I care about what others think. I don't care enough to be so desperate to conform that I won't experiment or stretch the boundaries of perceptions. I do care enough to not want to be seen and treated as if I was a complete social hermit (aka nutcase), and I care enough that I would like it if once in a while someone felt they might try something new for themselves after seeing me do it.

In my experience, the more you care and worry about rejection by others, the more they'll reject you.

Some of this is because if you're not confident. you'll appear ill-at-ease, and people will react negatively to that. Like, if you can't accept yourself, why should they?

The rest is because the less confident you are, the more demons (actual or imagined ) you'll see in others.

Caultron wrote:

Daryl wrote:...The real question is how much I care about what others think. I don't care enough to be so desperate to conform that I won't experiment or stretch the boundaries of perceptions. I do care enough to not want to be seen and treated as if I was a complete social hermit (aka nutcase), and I care enough that I would like it if once in a while someone felt they might try something new for themselves after seeing me do it.

In my experience, the more you care and worry about rejection by others, the more they'll reject you.

Some of this is because if you're not confident. you'll appear ill-at-ease, and people will react negatively to that. Like, if you can't accept yourself, why should they?

The rest is because the less confident you are, the more demons (actual or imagined ) you'll see in others.

You're not giving me much to argue with there, but I'll try.

I think "care" is a really vague term. My fellows used to ask me how I managed to stay cool under pressure, back when I was a CE for a firm that kept big systems going, like systems where if they failed then 65 people were out of work. My standard answer was also the true answer: "because ultimately I don't care." I was not worried at all what the angry customer thought of me or my boss. The worst thing a tech could do in those high pressure situations was take it personally, and thanks to my super healthy ego, I never did. Customers wound up loving me because I was always frank with them and if they were the problem they trusted that I wasn't just blame-shifting. My company wound up sending me on calls just because the tech who actually knew the system needed my help being confident enough to be effective.

So when I say "care" I may not mean what you imagine I mean. I mean I care how it affects me and others, not about whether people like me for it or not. Them that don't like me can leave the way they came in, but like those large systems, which I cared about enough to give my best attention to, because that was my livelihood, I am not entirely uncaring. I want people to have a chance of connecting with me, or even feeling personally empowered by my example.

So go ahead and care, I say, just try not to care so much that the anxiety messes with your confidence.

Accept myself? Of course, always. What other choice could there be?

Daryl wrote:So go ahead and care, I say, just try not to care so much that the anxiety messes with your confidence.

I like this sentiment. Caring is actually an important component of being human; if one doesn't care (for what he does or for other beings) he rapidly starts to take on a psychopathic viewpoint.

Like Daryl, I worked for a number of years as a CE (Customer Engineer) or FE (Field Engineer) and loved it. I enjoyed the machines I worked on and with, had a ball with my co-workers, was supremely confident in what I could do with those systems, and had customers that loved it when I'd show up because it meant that things were going to get fixed. I enjoyed it as much as I did precisely because I did care; I didn't like to see broken machines, and I didn't enjoy unhappy customers.

The trick is to not take anything personally, and if it does get personal to defuse that as quickly as possible ("I'm good, but I can't conjure this part out of thin air, it's going to have to be flown in."). If you're so worried about matters that you start taking stuff personally then you have a problem and really should try to sort it out. Recall that, in our case, if somebody doesn't happen to like what we're wearing it's their issue not ours unless they go out of their way to make it so -- and most won't. In the unlikely event that they do, take the high road and don't let it get to you. "Illegitimi non carborundum."

OK, strike, "care."

In my experience, the more you worry about rejection by others, the more they'll reject you.

As to accepting yourself, it's amazing how often people don't. They think, "I'm too fat," or, "I'm too thin," or, "I'm not attractive," or, "I'm not smart enough," or, "People just don't like me."

Now obviously we all have our faults, and it's healthy to recognize and work on them. But that's different from despairing we'll ever be the person we'd like to be. Self-loathing is a downhill slope.

Care what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.

It seems to be a quote from Lao Tzu and it is on my opening screen when I start my computer. Lest I forget to be rebellious today.

Another fitting quote might be: If you try to please everybody, you will please nobody.

Life is too short not to enjoy it to the full.

beachlion wrote:Care what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.

It seems to be a quote from Lao Tzu and it is on my opening screen when I start my computer. Lest I forget to be rebellious today.

Another fitting quote might be: If you try to please everybody, you will please nobody.

Life is too short not to enjoy it to the full.

Exactly.

If you can't be happy being yourself, how can you be happy?

What I wore to the multiplex yesterday. It was a tad chilly, so I wore a short denim jacket over it.