Solidarity

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Re: Solidarity

Postby beachlion » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:58 pm

Daryl wrote:
Fred in Skirts wrote:
Daryl wrote:Well, at least the change won't be for the better...
The past is a tricky thing. Select the right bits and you can make almost any point you want. Personally, I want the Italian government to give me reparations for the harm their empire did to my ancestors.


Good luck with that!! :lol:


Oh, I'm not an unreasonable man. Payment in pasta will be fine.


Be careful with that. They might charge you for teaching your ancestors how to build roads and bridges and to eat with a fork and knife. And they will find more. :wink:
All progress takes place outside the comfort zone - M J Bobak
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Sinned » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:33 am

Phathack shame on you,

"Women expect some level of sexual aggression towards them from their lovers, it makes them feed desired and turns them on sexualy [sic]."

In the above statement I don't agree with the word "aggression" as applying to women in general. Looking up it's definition:

Aggression
feelings of anger or antipathy resulting in hostile or violent behaviour; readiness to attack or confront.
synonyms: hostility, aggressiveness, belligerence, bellicosity, antagonism, truculence;
the action of attacking without provocation.
forcefulness.

At least I hope that's not what you meant and I am surprised that no-one else has called you out on this - hostility, forced or violent behaviour toward women or anyone for that matter is what we are trying to get away from. Interest may have been a better word and is probably more correct as it takes in both wanted and unwanted behaviour. Whilst there are women that are turned on sexually by aggression I would like to think that it wasn't a universal desire. Maybe the romantic notion that women wanted to be courted or wooed is what I would hope would be the norm.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Caultron » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:24 pm

phathack wrote:...Women expect some level of sexual aggression towards them from their lovers, it makes them feed desired and turns them on sexualy...

Careful with your generalities, there. Some women may expect some aggression but certainly not all.

And what do you mean by, "aggression?" A bit of tease and chase? A bit of taking charge? Rough sex? Bondage and ball gags ala Fifty Shades?

To accept women as people, you have to acknowledge that each one is different.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Solidarity

Postby phathack » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:56 am

Aggression - forceful and assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests.

Whilst there are women that are turned on sexually by aggression I would like to think that it wasn't a universal desire. Maybe the romantic notion that women wanted to be courted or wooed is what I would hope would be the norm.

It's a almost universal today that women like to be wanted and pursued, there was a reason Fifty Shades was a best selling book. The romantic notion that women wanted to be courted or wooed was a Disney Fairy Tale that just doesn't stand up to today's post 1970's sexual revolution reality.

The concept of a courtship is about as relative today as a 8 Track Tape is to music.

:ugeek:
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Caultron » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:30 am

phathack wrote:...wanted and pursued...courted or wooed...

What's the difference, from your point of view?
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Solidarity

Postby Sinned » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:38 am

phathack, "....wanted and pursued...." or "....courted and wooed...." maybe but agression from its definition inmplies more than just making one's intention clear and verges on coercion or violent interaction. Nancy Friday has noted in her books that female fantasy of compulsion and even rape or forcible sexual intercourse is a completely different notion than what would be wanted in reality. 50 shades is curiosity and fantasy and thus is not what would be tolerated in real life [0]. As for the Disney romantic style that hasn't been refuted at all and is in the fantasy bracket that women might like but don't expect. Mills & Boon have sold millions of books for nothing. So I'm sorry phathack I still don't think that aggression was the right word, can't really be defended and obviously some others don't think so too.

[0] No, I haven't read it although it is on my bookshelf having been purchased, but not read, by MOH ( why, I don't know - probably because of its apparent popularity an impulse purchase in a charity shop ). I try and read good literature and the reviews of the series of books hasn't been positive. Also I'm not into BDSM, neither is MOH.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Daryl » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:35 am

phathack wrote:Aggression - forceful and assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests.

Whilst there are women that are turned on sexually by aggression I would like to think that it wasn't a universal desire. Maybe the romantic notion that women wanted to be courted or wooed is what I would hope would be the norm.

It's a almost universal today that women like to be wanted and pursued, there was a reason Fifty Shades was a best selling book. The romantic notion that women wanted to be courted or wooed was a Disney Fairy Tale that just doesn't stand up to today's post 1970's sexual revolution reality.

The concept of a courtship is about as relative today as a 8 Track Tape is to music.
:ugeek:


It probably depends on the individual woman. Generalisations are very risky today. Some men like to be courted and wooed too. But despite the fact that generalisations are risky, some group tendencies do persist, and in my view are not all a consequence of culture or socialisation (though the forms they take may be).

"Aggression" is a difficult term. For most people, I think, its core connotation is hostility: aggression against someone else. Uses that don't mean to suggest hostility are perceived as metaphorical and are only seen as harmless aggression in situations where conflict and domination of others is expected and formalised as part of a contest, for example in the game of hockey. "Aggressiveness" does not exactly imply "prone to aggression" in common speech. I would stick to using the term "assertiveness".

That said, it is true that female humans still practice being the attractors and expect men to be the attracted, and to work to prove they are serious. In the mating game, women do a lot of work prior to stepping out but men do more work once out. Our genes are ancient and these tendencies may not be subject to much social modification. Part of the game of proving that one is seriously interested in someone else is overcoming obstacles, and those obstacles may be placed there by one's person of interest him/herself. When men mistake a real rejection for a mere obstacle they are meant to overcome, they are not going to be well-served by believing that what women "really" want is aggression. They will compound an error with an action that is so completely unacceptable that it becomes assault. What women are really testing for is the ability of a man to commit; evidence that he is not a quitter or a coward or weak.

Apparent evidence of people enjoying submissiveness in sex play is greatly overweighted towards depictions of females enjoying it. Research shows that it is roughly as common in males, and very common in general. There is an aesthetic harmony being exploited between women and submission in pornographic representations. Women are smaller and weaker on average so can be more believably seen as losing a contest of dominance with a man than the reverse. And since porn generally aims to appeal to a male audience, women as the objects of sexual interest is the predominant type. In real life, trust is an essential component of a consensual relationship, and dominance-submission play takes place within a trusting relationship in a way that is entirely different from what is acceptable prior to a relationship even existing.

BTW, "The Secretary" is a far better film than "Fifty Shades of Grey", IMO. 8)
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