Solidarity

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Solidarity

Postby jamodu » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:06 am

There have been several televised awards ceremonies for the creative arts recently. Women attendees are dressing in Black to demonstrate their solidarity with one another in response to Male harassement in the workplace. Typically, such attire has been in wearing Black Dresses (not trousers/pants).

Maybe this solidarity should go one step further: in a true sense of equality, that Men are encouraged by Women to show their solidarity with Women against workplace harassment by wearing Black Skirts or Black Dresses to work.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Sinned » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:34 pm

I didn't know about all this solidarity thing and wearing black. It's actually not a bad idea and I do have black tops as well as black skirts, tights and shoes. It's a concept that won't be universally known though and as such would need a bit of explaining especially as it seems to be confined just to awards ceremonies [0] and not as general day-to-day wear. "I'm wearing all black including a skirt to highlight my support for women expressing protest against harassment in the workplace." I could go for it and as a side-effect would be pretty much anonymous wherever I went.

[0] I googled this and the results returned were predominantly awards ceremonies
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Re: Solidarity

Postby jamodu » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:13 pm

The 2 complimentary campaigns are...

Time’s Up (UK)

#MeToo (USA)
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Sinned » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:37 am

Just googled it and I wasn't aware of these campaigns. I suspect that a lot more won't be too so a few explanations would be expected. I also think that the skirt would predominate in people's eyes rather than the all black. Thanks for bringing to to my attention although now I have to decide what to do about it and whether it is worth trying to show solidarity. I wore a safety pin in my fleece at work for a long while and nobody commented or asked what it was all about.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Caultron » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:39 am

jamodu wrote:There have been several televised awards ceremonies for the creative arts recently. Women attendees are dressing in Black to demonstrate their solidarity with one another in response to Male harassement in the workplace. Typically, such attire has been in wearing Black Dresses (not trousers/pants).

Maybe this solidarity should go one step further: in a true sense of equality, that Men are encouraged by Women to show their solidarity with Women against workplace harassment by wearing Black Skirts or Black Dresses to work.

I think all-black is kind of fun sometimes. Black shirt, black shirt, black skirt, black tights, black shoes, black bag...

Maybe it's goth, maybe it's Johnny Cash, whatever, it's still kind of fun.

So why not have even more fun with it? Anything to oppose sexual harassment and its epitome, the dotard...
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Solidarity

Postby Gusto10 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:24 pm

Over on the continent the discussion has actually simmered out. I have the feeling that, and so it's been described also in the Old World and by CNN, it is a new exponent of the women's lib organisation and enhanced by the AEI (American Entrepeneurs Insitute), which is a very feminist bulwark. It's further enhanced by the fact that liability underwriters have paid out already large sums (90mio USD in respect of the Fox case) while solid proof lacks.

I do think that men have been too supportive of these issues and neglected that part of the problems may lie in psychological harassement by women. The present actions present men as bad-guys in general, whilst it may be individual cases. Also if single women invite men to their home after having had diner elsewhere together, it used to be an invitation to consume more.
Looking back the mechanism to dominate other groups is by stating that your group is discriminated. The following step is that the new dominant party will discriminate the old.

The risk of generalising these actions via #metoo and the likes, is it will upset the relationship man/woman in general whilst it are a few incidents. I do think that the shootouts at schools in the USA should have more attention.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby stevelous » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:45 pm

I am 100% behind the campaigns to end Sexual Harassment by anyone male, female or whatever. There is no room for it anywhere. People need to keep their hands to themselves and respect others, No means No, simples!

In most parts of the world people, mainly Women, are treated as targets for abuse by those who are stronger, larger or in groups. In India, Turkey etc men have put on skirts to support the victims and protest the image that Women should be regarded as objects to be raped, murdered etc. We should follow suit and protest, not sure about black though it need to be more visible.

As a modern human, biologically male, I can and do behave my self in the company of others, male, female and others. I do respect their right to be safe. I have a lot of friends of all genders and I treat them the way I want to be treated by them with 'love and respect'.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby crfriend » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:12 am

stevelous wrote:As a modern human, biologically male, I can and do behave my self in the company of others, male, female and others. I do respect their right to be safe. I have a lot of friends of all genders and I treat them the way I want to be treated by them with 'love and respect'.

This is the behaviour of a real man. Bravo!

Real men don't pose, they don't take on airs, they are simply themselves, behaving well amongst those around them. Unfortunately, these are not the men that are celebrated in modern "society".
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Daryl » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:15 pm

stevelous wrote:I am 100% behind the campaigns to end Sexual Harassment by anyone male, female or whatever. There is no room for it anywhere. People need to keep their hands to themselves and respect others, No means No, simples!

In most parts of the world people, mainly Women, are treated as targets for abuse by those who are stronger, larger or in groups. In India, Turkey etc men have put on skirts to support the victims and protest the image that Women should be regarded as objects to be raped, murdered etc. We should follow suit and protest, not sure about black though it need to be more visible.

As a modern human, biologically male, I can and do behave my self in the company of others, male, female and others. I do respect their right to be safe. I have a lot of friends of all genders and I treat them the way I want to be treated by them with 'love and respect'.


It's easy to get behind the idea of ending harassment of any kind. It's a subtle tautology, like saying that aggression is always bad. The issue is not whether or not one is against things that are bad by definition. The issue is what actually constitutes harrassment. A further issue is what level of tolerance should be practiced. Zero tolerance is tyranny. It's great to grandstand (eg. Oprah) with expressions of support for things that are inarguable as mere naked principles, but it's not very useful, or productive of justice in the aggregate.

There is no one who is actually supportive of harassment so what good is a statement that one is against it?

So we see harassment being defined as the way the recipient decides to take a particular interaction, not by any attempts to define it objectively. In the MeToo moment, even "inappropriate" is enough of an accusation for us to burn a witch.

In my town we had an ad campaign in transit vehicles depicting the many ways that some people were made to feel "unsafe". Some of them were absurdly trivial, such as "this is where someone took her picture while she slept"...presumably also stealing her soul in the process. Who among us hasn't taken a picture of someone in an embarrassing or comical position, or laughed at one taken by someone else? Other ads were clearly off the target, depicting interactions with clearly mentally-disturbed or handicapped people as being examples of gender or sexual orientation oppression.

Feeling loved and respected by others is not a right. If it were a right, it would be all form and no substance. You can't legislate love and respect. These must be earned.

I rather like it when someone touches me without asking first. They are bonding with me, and if they were being creepy I would know how to shake them and it off. Assault is not on a continuum from normal human contact; it is on a separate continuum.

"No means no" is an effective slogan. If only the real world was so simples. From that starting point the idea that any incentivisation at all is equivalent to rape is established. This can include pleading and making puppydog eyes. They are forms of "pressure" (serious deep dire voice). "I felt like I couldn't refuse" becomes equivalent to evidence of force.

I am 100% against campaigns to end sexual harassment, not because I think sexual harassment is okay but because I think the simplistic thinking they engender causes harm while the campaigns themselves waste our time and attention. Largely these camapaigns are forms of hate speech.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Fred in Skirts » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:31 pm

Daryl, I am 100% with you on this.

:soapbox: I believe that the Zero Tolerance is tyranny. It is a way to control the populace and incarcerate them if they get out of line with out the due process of law. Another thing I can not go along with is being blamed for the sins of the past. Applying today standards to the past and then trying to destroy all things associated with the past will not change anything. Or saying we today owe them everything because their ancestors were treated wrongly is just plain stupid. All it does is make other people mad and causes hatred to be manifest.

:soapbox: Climbing down off the box........

To end on a happy note!!

I love my skirts!! :hooray: :hooray: :hooray: :hooray:
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Daryl » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:34 pm

Gusto10 wrote:I do think that men have been too supportive of these issues and neglected that part of the problems may lie in psychological harassement by women. The present actions present men as bad-guys in general, whilst it may be individual cases.


Feminism's core narrative -- the "patriarchy" conspiracy theory -- is an accusation against men as a class. It is hate speech. We men are paying for it with tax dollars that support universities that teach hatred of men in "gender studies" curricula.

We shouldn't need to feel the need to explain ourselves, or defend ourselves. We should start calling out anti-male sexism every time we experience it without qualifying it with "well maybe sometimes men are like that". We should call hate speech "hate speech", not argue the validity of the conspiracy theory. We should never agree that men are "privileged". It's time to stop letting hate have a pass just because it's women doing it.

Diana Davison, a real woman, is very enlightening on this subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDbvfW0opX4
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Daryl » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:49 pm

Fred in Skirts wrote:Another thing I can not go along with is being blamed for the sins of the past. Applying today standards to the past and then trying to destroy all things associated with the past will not change anything.


Well, at least the change won't be for the better...

The past is a tricky thing. Select the right bits and you can make almost any point you want. Personally, I want the Italian government to give me reparations for the harm their empire did to my ancestors.
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Re: Solidarity

Postby phathack » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:50 pm

Daryl wrote:It's easy to get behind the idea of ending harassment of any kind. It's a subtle tautology, like saying that aggression is always bad...

Women expect some level of sexual aggression towards them from their lovers, it makes them feed desired and turns them on sexualy.

If that sexual aggression towards a woman is from a man that she does not wish to have a relationship with then it becomes Sexual Harassment. This usually happens when a man misinterprets the subtle signals that women give out concerning those who she may and may not be sexualy intrested in.

The problem with the #MeToo moment is that women who willingly participated in a relationship where they traded sexual favors for things that would benefit their professional career and were perfectly comfortable doing so at the time, came to regret it years later so they now make claims that they were "pressured into this or felt like I couldn't refuse" when in reality they could of simply said no and walked away.

Many of which if they had said no would of not so easily achieved their stardom if at all.

I agree with Daryl in that campaigns to end sexual harassment are indeed largely just forms of hate speech propagated by rabid Feminist who harbour extreme misandry.


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Re: Solidarity

Postby Fred in Skirts » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:51 pm

Daryl wrote:Well, at least the change won't be for the better...
The past is a tricky thing. Select the right bits and you can make almost any point you want. Personally, I want the Italian government to give me reparations for the harm their empire did to my ancestors.


Good luck with that!! :lol:
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Re: Solidarity

Postby Daryl » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:55 pm

Fred in Skirts wrote:
Daryl wrote:Well, at least the change won't be for the better...
The past is a tricky thing. Select the right bits and you can make almost any point you want. Personally, I want the Italian government to give me reparations for the harm their empire did to my ancestors.


Good luck with that!! :lol:


Oh, I'm not an unreasonable man. Payment in pasta will be fine.
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