You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
pelmut
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by pelmut »

The key point is that there is only one writer but many readers. It takes the writer a few extra seconds to check punctuation, spelling and whether the words convey the intended meaning - it wastes hours of readers' time (in total) trying to decipher slovenly grammar and muddled thoughts. It shows a disregard for your readers if you just type any old rubbish and hope that they will be able to sort it out.

Most members of this forum are above reproach in that respect, but some other groups regularly decend into incomprehensibility.
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Gordon »

I agree 100% on the thoughts about grammar and punctuation. However please keep in mind that there are those who don't know proper grammar and punctuation. We shouldn't pick on them and scare them away either. We need everyone to feel comfortable here. If you have to read a post twice then do it. But don't chide them for it.
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Gordon »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Gordon, thank you for the support. I would also like to say that as best as I can tell from your avatar picture, your shirtdress looks fine and you look good in it. May I suggest that you post some pictures in the Pics and Looks section and ask for input.
Alas that is not a shirt dress but rather a kilt and men's shirt. But you're right that I should post some pics. I'll try to do that.
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beachlion
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by beachlion »

Gordon wrote:I agree 100% on the thoughts about grammar and punctuation. However please keep in mind that there are those who don't know proper grammar and punctuation. We shouldn't pick on them and scare them away either. We need everyone to feel comfortable here. If you have to read a post twice then do it. But don't chide them for it.
There are also a few from non-English speaking countries like me from the Netherlands. I don't have the skills to write those long novel-like contributions in the Queens English or the Presidents American (maybe I can beat the current one :wink: ). So my contributions are short, almost Twitter length and I hope understandable.
Most people give me some leeway, some are correcting me in a polite way but a few are making fun of my murdering of the English lingo. Sometimes I ask them to say something in Dutch. That is not so difficult because some words they already know like cookie, noodles, waffle, boss, caboose, stoop en dollar to name a few. Some Dutch influence stayed behind after the English kicked the Dutch from New Amsterdam in the 1660s.

In general, your communication should be as clear as possible. If the other side does not understand you, your efforts are in vain. Sometimes I choose the wrong words or use the wrong sequence of words. That is because of the fundamental differences between English and Dutch. You should try to translate the meaning, not just the words.
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Fred in Skirts »

If any of you have ever studied a foreign (to American shores) language you realize that the syntax of these languages are no-where near the same as American English, why even the Queens own English is different from ours. Another thing language arts have not been taught in schools like it was when I went to school. Now they don't teach as much of what I was taught in the fourth grade in high school. Spelling is not even pushed anymore. So don't blame the poor folk who do their best to write in English when they are either used to writing and thinking in a foreign tongue or have never been taught English properly.
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pelmut
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by pelmut »

My comments were aimed at the slovenly who cannot be bothered to put their thoughts in order, cannot be bothered to check that they have used the right word, cannot be bothered to employ any kind of punctuation and cannot be bothered to read through what they (or some 'helpful' word-mangling computer program) wrote, before pushing the Send button. My apologies if it looked as though I was getting at non-native English speakers - quite the contrary, in my experience a lot of people who have learned English as a second language actually speak and write it more clearly than many English people.
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Uncle Al »

The MAIN gist of my post was about CIVILITY.
Uncle Al wrote:PLEASE remember that civility is mandatory at Skirt Cafe'.
If the lack of civility continues, I fear that, warnings will be issued to
the offending member/s.
Too many people think they are 'helping' when they are, based on their
choice of words, really cutting someone down.

We all go through growing pains in the Fashion Freedom March towards
greater equality of, and for, the sexes. Women experienced it in the '40's
and '50's when they had to change clothes when leaving the factories.
They couldn't wear skirts and/or dresses around the fabrication machinery
as it was dangerous. The material could get caught in the machines,
causing physical harm to the person. So, the women adopted 'Work Pants'
or 'Trousers' to be able to do the factory work, building aircraft during the
War. After the War ended, the women continued to wear pants and converted
the 'idea' into their casual wear.

Yes, I understand that many members of Skirt Cafe' have English as a
second language. I don't fault them one bit in their posts. That, again,
was NOT the main focus of my post.

Being civil and courteous to one another is a major role in how we interact
with each other. This is MANDATORY on this forum. Several people
are getting away from this concept and that is the reason for my post.

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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Hello Beachlion,

I am so sorry that anyone, let alone someone on this forum, mocked you for your command of the English language. That's despicable of them.

Just so you know, I enjoy your posts and am better able to read yours than a few of our members who have grown up speaking, reading and writing English. It's a mongrel language, especially American English, with so many exceptions to its rules some native speakers wonder allow why we bother with rules at all!

It's too bad so few Americans go overseas, if more Americans saw how hard people all over the world work to understand and communicate with us mono-lingual Americans, they would be VERY appreciative of your efforts to make yourself understood.

Again, my apologies that my countrymen have treated you rudely. If they knew more of their history, they would know that Holland was the first nation to recognize the United States as an independent nation. (cf. Barbara Tuchman's First Salute) and hopefully treat you better.

I expect those Dutch words you cited came into English usage during the period when The Netherlands was the world's premiere maritime and trading nation.

Please bear with the few of us who don't understand the requirements of good manners and respect for others.
Last edited by Pdxfashionpioneer on Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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beachlion
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by beachlion »

Some of the regulars on this forum are using quite elaborate language, it reads like a Pulitzer Price novel. To understand the text, I have to check now and then a dictionary. :wink: My English in school was technical English, bolts and nuts so to speak.
To be clear, no one from this forum ever said something negative about my version of English. It is more in the corner of family and friends. When I have to repeat a sentence, I start with:"Excuse my Dutch accent" and then make myself clear.

The Dutch origin of the quoted words are: koekje, noedels, wafel, baas, kombuis, stoep and daalder. Now you know what you miss if the Dutch had stayed and occupied the continent. :wink:
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beachlion
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by beachlion »

beachlion wrote:Some of the regulars on this forum are using quite elaborate language, it reads like a Pulitzer Price novel. To understand the text, I have to check now and then a dictionary. :wink: My English in school was technical English, bolts and nuts so to speak.
To be clear, no one from this forum ever said something negative about my version of English. It is more in the corner of family and friends. When I have to repeat a sentence, I start with:"Excuse my Dutch accent" and then make myself clear.

The Dutch origin of the quoted words are: koekje, noedels, wafel, baas, kombuis, stoep and daalder. Now you know what you miss if the Dutch had stayed and occupied the continent. :wink:
As far as I know France was the first country to recognize the USA, the Netherlands came second. And they came with a $2million loan for war supplies.
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by crfriend »

Caution: Thread drift!
beachlion wrote:To be clear, no one from this forum ever said something negative about my version of English.
It is worth noting that much of the US suffers terribly from monolingualism. I find this entirely sad and needless because the study of languages different from the one(s) one was brought up to speak by birth can cut one off from aid greatly in understanding the vastly larger world around one. I count myself entirely fortunate that I've had some formal training in French, and have an innate interest in language and its structure, so leveraging French got lots of insights into other languages.

I am given to understand that if a native English-speaker made port in, say, Rotterdam, spent a few weeks there soaking things up, and then travelled east at a leisurely pace (say canal-boat speeds), by the time he reached Germany he'd be able to converse reasonably well in German -- such is the closeness of our languages.

I have heard spoken Dutch, mainly thanks to short-wave radio, and have been mildly infuriated by its "closeness" to English, but was never able to "lock onto" it and comprehend it properly. So close, yet, at the same time, so far...

On the ability to use language, following the loss of AF 4590 in 2000 I was not willing to wait for the formal English translation of the accident report. So, with my knowledge of French grammar and a limited vocabulary, with a translating dictionary at my side, set about reading the original in French -- and it was more than worth the effort. It was a better read in the original French than in the English translation.

So many languages, so little time...
Last edited by crfriend on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed a very nasty gaffe
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

"Caution: thread drift!"

In for a penny, in for a pound I always say.

"France was first (to recognize the US)"

That's the common understanding but the Dutch beat the French to that post, hence the title of Ms. Tuchman's book. Before France officially recognized the US, a US warship visited a Dutch possession in the Caribbean and was greeted with the number of guns salute appropriate for a man-of-war from a bona fide nation. Your home nation did it first. And indeed lent the US significant amounts of money at critical moments.
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beachlion
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by beachlion »

Still drifting.

It is a matter of definition. The Dutch were the first to greet an American ship with a 11 gun salute at St Eustatius in November 1776. This is a de facto recognition. But the juridical recognition came after the French. In those days news travelled slow by ship so actions like this were also slow.
And the English were quite pissed off and occupied St Eustatius soon after.
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

I guess some nations just can't take a joke ... well, I suppose it was a slap in the face. :lol:

Funny how the United Kingdom is now our closest ally.
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Re: You've got somewhere to go, have anything to wear?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

OK. Fair's fair. I started this thread so I guess I better get back on the track of the original topic.

One of the quandaries many habitues of the Cafe have cited is finding appropriate shoes that fit and are comfortable. Try Jay's Wide Shoes. It may be just a local chain, but I will bet they do a brisk online business as well.

Once you got a pair of heels that fit reasonably well -- expect slippage in the heel itself, for some reason women's feet are wider there than men's, try heel pads -- are comfortable -- Caultron et al are absolutely right, shoes should be reasonably comfortable within seconds of putting them on -- you have the challenge of actually walking in them! Unless you're extremely observant you'll have to take my word for this, women manage to walk in high heels because when walking their feet land flat or toe-heel while we men walk heel-toe. In addition, when in heels they lead their strides with their knees rather than their feet. Hence the difference in landing.

You can thank my very ungrateful feet for reminding me of these facts. It's odd, the shoes I was wearing today are supposed to be the 2nd to most comfortable heels Naturalizer ever made. Yeah right, about half of my heels are Naturalizers and these are the 2nd to least comfortable. So much for manufacturers' claims and customer reviews. They're a great start, but you've got to try on the goods!

Speaking of which, while running my other errands, I popped into one of my favorite stores today, Marshall's. I was just going to use the escalator and see if I could see anything that might match my red jacket (Good luck when I didn't have it to compare!). Then I saw those irresistible two words, "Clearance Event!" Took the escalator, saw a blouse that looked promised but left it on the rack vowing to not touch it unless I found something else to try on at the same time. One of the staff asked if I was finding everything alright. Yes I was. after scouring the clearance area I realized I wasn't seeing any skirts and that same staff member happened by so I asked her about them. They had sold out their skirts before it was clearance time.

As I always say, "In for a penny, in for a pound," so I asked where the clearance dressses were. Just as I was about to give up, the fitting room clerk complimented me on my legs when I turned around to acknowledge her comment she went on to say she wished hers looked so good! I would have demurred, but I realized she was old enough she was probably telling it like it is and I would have sounded condescending. So I chuckled and redoubled my efforts to find something irresistibly cheap.

Found it! A light blue, turtleneck sweater dress for $10. With long sleeves to boot. When I told my new found friend that they were both coming home with she was quite pleased, as was the staff member who had directed me back there in the first place.

On the way to the checkout counter I snagged the red dress hangers I had been looking for -- surely you don't expect me to hang a red dress on a white clothes hanger, do you? -- and got to the end of their little maze just as the previous customer was finishing up. Confusion, so which of you three lovely ladies is going to ring me up? When one asserted herself I promptly knocked her bar code scanner off of its stand and the four of us had a great time bantering as my goodies got rung up and stuffed into my bag from Ross.

Bottom line: fit is essential in shoes or you'll have plenty of opportunity to rise above your pain. You can find padding to compensate, but don't count on miracles. Point 2: if you can rise above the pain or find pumps that are comfortable, you can have a lot of fun shopping in the women's department.
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