cannot stop the skirts, it's addicting

[dillon]

Land of the free indeed. Until prejudice is eliminated in this country, we will NEVER be free! Not even close!

Progress will not come entirely through judicial, legislative, or executive acts; it never has. It will come mainly through the evolution of our national consciousness, and national conscience. America has evolved in two generations to a position on most outwardly evident human differences in that only a dwindling fraction of people would still argue that it should be okay to legally discriminate by race, sex, or ethnicity. But our collective cause, though progressing in consciousness, and in law, is not yet at the forefront of the national conscience.

Race, sex, and ethnicity are generally not concealable, and that simple truth propels recognition of the malice in those particular discriminatory ideologies. Sexual orientation, gender identity, and deep personal identity, however, are concealable, and that results in a three-way division in out national conscience. You still have the hateful "Kill the queers" dinosaurs of the irrational right, resisting their inevitable extinction by media-inseminating their hideous beliefs into an ever-diminishing younger brood; and you have the growing consciousness on the left that says "Let a person be himself/herself, as his/her inner identity and desire compels." But you also have that large center, wobbling like a chunk of Jello, who prefers a "Don't ask, don't tell" approach, in effect remanding us back to the closet as the moral dilemma of the next generation. Their position says "Well, it's okay to be LGBTQ (Q including those who decline to wear the prescribed uniform conforming to their genitalia), as long as we are not widely confronted with the fact of your existence; we can't handle the socio-cultural conflict you cause us. How dare you challenge us to consider our social ethic! How dare you invade our psychological comfort zone!"

You may disagree with my opinion on this - I've always expressed a bit more restraint in my choices than half the correspondents on here - but I see our path to equality led by bold hetero-apparent men who choose to wear skirts, etc., in casual masculine presentation. It is my opinion, and I don't ask anyone to agree with it, my more flamboyant friends not withstanding, that removing the "pansy" stigma from skirts will most aid our progress, thus cracking the door for everyone. Many of you will call this a biased and unfair opinion - and I suppose it is - and if this was an unbiased and fair society, that fact would matter. And though legal change is a cause dear to me, and well worth fighting for, we should be realistic that it's social change which will ultimately make the difference. It was not the brilliant parrot, but the subtle rodent, after all, who stole the eggs of the crocodile...

[crfriend]

[...] I see our path to equality led by bold hetero-apparent men who choose to wear skirts, etc., in casual masculine presentation.

I am largely of this opinion as well -- and no amount of legislation is going to make a dent on the general attitude of the public. If anything, attention from the legislature will likely irritate the public in precisely the same way as I am getting very weary of the great Bathroom Furore that's swirling now in my home state. I can put up with a lot, but I'm getting sick of the shrill whine coming from all corners on the matter: I don't care, so stop bothering me about it.

Since skirt-wearing by men is not illegal then any man is within his right to dress so if he desires. However, he is doing a bit of a dis-service to the notion if he leans too far over into "feminine territory" by way of mannerisms or behaviours in addition to donning a skirt. That's just sending the signal that there's "more to it than clothes". Perhaps a motto might be -- "Don't just grow a 'pair', grow a moustache too."

[Couya]

I am with Dillon and Carl with this. It is only if skirts lose their feminine association that some of the great majority of males will ever contemplate donning an unbifurcated garment. After all, the Ls, Bs, Gs ... and skirted men are all tiny minorities that much of the population will never notice, perhaps never even encounter.
If, when Joe Blogs does encounter a skirted man, the skirt looks girly, the former will surely say, that's not for me. If on the other hand, the skirted man looks just as macho/hetero/toughguy as J Blogs himself, then he may possibly be more receptive of the idea that a skirt could be a more comfortable garment for guys with big balls.

At the same time, I have to admit, no man has ever tried to copy my clothing, however plain and unfeminine it has been. Perhaps I need to put on some more muscle

Martin

[skirtingtheissue]

...I see our path to equality led by bold hetero-apparent men who choose to wear skirts, etc., in casual masculine presentation. It is my opinion, and I don't ask anyone to agree with it, my more flamboyant friends not withstanding, that removing the "pansy" stigma from skirts will most aid our progress, thus cracking the door for everyone....

when Joe Blogs does encounter a skirted man, the skirt looks girly, the former will surely say, that's not for me. If on the other hand, the skirted man looks just as macho/hetero/toughguy as J Blogs himself, then he may possibly be more receptive of the idea that a skirt could be a more comfortable garment for guys with big balls.

I generally agree with these viewpoints (likewise Carl's), namely that the Skirting Movement benefits more from "casual masculine presentation" than from the girly look. However I think the other movement, the Freestyle Fashion Movement, occupant of this portion of the Café, is also a valid evolutionary path for society. Its aficionados in these pages are clearly enjoying pushing the feminine envelope (AS MEN) and celebrating being able to wear whatever they want. But this movement will meet more resistance.

My problem is, I belong to both movements. (I guess it isn't really a problem, is it?!) As a result, I have a varied skirt wardrobe, from a men's modern kilt to girly skirts. Most commonly I wear fairly straightforward skirts from the women's aisle, such as the plain Style J kind, hiking skirts, and denim skirts. MOH also prefers a masculine look so that's what it usually is. I am sending the message to those who see me, "Hey, it's just a skirt". But for certain occasions, it sure is fun to venture a bit into the Freestyle mode. It suits me. It also rebels against the generally boring and drab look of men's fashion.

------Henry

[crfriend]

I generally agree with these viewpoints (likewise Carl's), namely that the Skirting Movement benefits more from "casual masculine presentation" than from the girly look.

It is my hope that there is room in this at the more formal end of the spectrum as well. Whilst many would like "casual" (which altogether too often is easily confused with grunge) as the be-all and end-all, I'm interested in pushing boundaries in looks appropriate to the workplace or for even potentially black-tie. In the rush to dumb everything down to casual we lost one heck of a lot.

However I think the other movement, the Freestyle Fashion Movement, occupant of this portion of the Café, is also a valid evolutionary path for society.

It is, but it, too, is a continuum -- at one "end" of "fashion freedom" (or "Freestyle") is a bloke wearing a skirt; at the other extreme we have outright masquerading, and I think it's the latter that causes most of the heartburn.

My problem is, I belong to both movements. (I guess it isn't really a problem, is it?!) As a result, I have a varied skirt wardrobe, from a men's modern kilt to girly skirts.

There is no real conflict there that I'm aware of, and that's why I'd rather see everybody under one big tent instead of balkanised out into little tiny unsustainable factions.

It also rebels against the generally boring and drab look of men's fashion.

This may be the genesis for my leaning toward the more formal end of the spectrum.

[moonshadow]

You may disagree with my opinion on this - I've always expressed a bit more restraint in my choices than half the correspondents on here - but I see our path to equality led by bold hetero-apparent men who choose to wear skirts, etc., in casual masculine presentation. It is my opinion, and I don't ask anyone to agree with it, my more flamboyant friends not withstanding, that removing the "pansy" stigma from skirts will most aid our progress, thus cracking the door for everyone.

It's not that I disagree with it, it's is, after all a matter of personal preference on how one presents. By all means, wear what makes you comfortable, on the inside and out... that's what I do. As for me? I like the freaks.

[Grok]

....

I generally agree with these viewpoints (likewise Carl's), namely that the Skirting Movement benefits more from "casual masculine presentation" than from the girly look. However I think the other movement, the Freestyle Fashion Movement, occupant of this portion of the Café, is also a valid evolutionary path for society. Its aficionados in these pages are clearly enjoying pushing the feminine envelope (AS MEN) and celebrating being able to wear whatever they want. But this movement will meet more resistance.

My problem is, I belong to both movements. (I guess it isn't really a problem, is it?!) As a result, I have a varied skirt wardrobe, from a men's modern kilt to girly skirts. Most commonly I wear fairly straightforward skirts from the women's aisle, such as the plain Style J kind, hiking skirts, and denim skirts. MOH also prefers a masculine look so that's what it usually is. I am sending the message to those who see me, "Hey, it's just a skirt". But for certain occasions, it sure is fun to venture a bit into the Freestyle mode. It suits me. It also rebels against the generally boring and drab look of men's fashion.

------Henry

While I am not an advocate of free styling, as such (my number one interest is kilting, my second interest is caftans), I can see a bit of free styling as a way to rebel against the stultifying strictures that society imposes on men. There is something about the thrill of the forbidden....

[moonshadow]

Well, this is the way I feel about it: The way I see it, if you're a man, and want to present as somewhat macho, and advocate skirts for *all* men, then you need to promote the kilt, as it is basically universally accepted as a masculine, men's garment.

For those who like to visit the buffet of Freesyle Fashion, then we all must understand that everyone gets to choose what to put on their plate. Like food, we all have different taste, but some of the post I see here aren't promoting freestyle. It's promoting a certain "image" that we are expected to portray as a man in a skirt. Speaking for myself, I didn't start wearing skirts to turn right around and become a conformist.

Now for those of us who are allowed to wear skirts on the job, then obviously, some type of professional dress is called for. But in our own time? It's freestyle for free time.

Other than situations where formality is called for, as always, suggestions are always helpful in regards to putting together a good sharp look, but woe unto us when we begin to turn suggestions into standard "rules" of male skirt wearing. Whereas some of you seem to fear that just having men going around wearing what ever they want will somehow damage the image of men in skirts, I disagree. It may damage the ideal that we are supposed to look a certain way, but on the flip side, it promotes a freedom to wear what we want, and I personally believe, that will bring more men to the skirt aisle than rigid fashion dogma.

This is my opinion on the matter, and it shall not waver, because....

..."I do my thing, and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I; if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped."
-Fritz Perls

and to quote a little something from Kilted John... "Miss Manners doesn't always apply to us".

[crfriend]

[...] "Miss Manners doesn't always apply to us".

That's true in the specific sense, but not really in the general sense. It's true in the specific sense insofar as we are cutting new ground in this regard, and that gives us very wide latitude. However, some of those "rules" do apply in the general sense of how to coordinate colour, how to use cut and shape, how to find and use line, and -- gasp -- how to "accessorise". Those may be considered almost universal, much in the same way the the "Golden Rectangle" has worked for centuries -- it's just pleasing to the eye.

I'm not going to slag off on anybody's personal style, and I do encourage the "pushing of the envelope" from time to time. Heck, I've been accused of a "costume" look occasionally, which I understand and respect (I just don't happen to agree with it). We cannot really be held all that accountable for the impression formed in the mind of a random observer as we bend convention (and hence, by necessity, minds); however, we can craft our looks and styles -- our own "fashion sense" -- to blend harmoniously with our psyches and so long as we can pull it off plausibly (to use Grok's term, which may be better than my notion of "believably") and get a chance to interact with observers we should be able to win the day almost every time.

I absolutely think [0] that masquerading as women does no favours, but otherwise, so long as we unashamedly present as men who are just "unconventionally attired" we can win the game.

[0] Does anybody know how to disable auto-corrupt in Firefox? I know for a fact that I typed "think" for that word, and when I went back to proofread found "thing" instead -- and the keys aren't even close.

[Elisabetta]

Free style the style to choose and be free.

[moonshadow]

That's true in the specific sense, but not really in the general sense. It's true in the specific sense insofar as we are cutting new ground in this regard, and that gives us very wide latitude. However, some of those "rules" do apply in the general sense of how to coordinate colour, how to use cut and shape, how to find and use line, and -- gasp -- how to "accessorise". Those may be considered almost universal, much in the same way the the "Golden Rectangle" has worked for centuries -- it's just pleasing to the eye.

In the general sense, I'd agree with that. There's nothing wrong with trying to look presentable, and I'm not trying to imply otherwise. However I'm of the personal belief that kilts will win more men over than skirts from the women's side of the store. So my point above was merely that if it's just a matter of promoting a general skirt for a man, I believe the kilt would be the best way to go. Perhaps soon they will come down in price somewhat as they gradually get more popular and more and more manufacturers are competing. This thought really has to do with the idea that most men do not want to look like crossdressers or transvestites. And lets just call a spade a spade here... I'm sure the general public looks at me and virtually every freestyler on this site as just another crazy crossdresser, only without the makeup, wig, and hiked up voice.

And that's fine, because every now and then I get to strike up a conversation with someone about why I wear what I wear, and I'm able to educate them on the real reasons why I do this, and that is that it has everything to do with the fact I enjoy them, and wish to promote men's fashion freedom.

Whereas a great majority on this site prefer to project somewhat of a "standard" image of the skirted man, as you all well know, I enjoy leaning more towards the eclectic style. Yes it makes heads hurt and turn, but I enjoy projecting the image that we can set our "fashion spirit" free. I do like the way I look when I'm dressed formal in a skirt or dress, but often times, I just really enjoy being flamboyant. But don't worry fellas, I am the minority in this regard, and I seriously doubt I'm going to single-handedly derail the entire men in skirts movement because I look funny. ... Maybe Cyndi Lauper and myself were cut from the same stock. I dunno.

Perhaps that's why I like my style, because it's too crazy for men and women alike. "Well, does he look like a man? No. Does he look like a woman? No... He looks like Moon Shadow". It makes me near impossible to pigeonhole in any class, save for the crazies. And what can I say.... the shoe fits!

Does anybody know how to disable auto-corrupt in Firefox? I know for a fact that I typed "think" for that word, and when I went back to proofread found "thing" instead -- and the keys aren't even close.

I have this horrible habit of forgetting the "t" at the end of many words. I though tha I migh have made a mistake and forgotten, or maybe there's something wrong with my keyboard, or maybe there's something wrong with me?

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Fer cryin' out loud! Did we all forget they're just clothes!!

Our whole message to the world is, "Don't be afraid to be yourself. Whoever that may be and however you may choose to express it. We just happen to do it by wearing what we darn well please."

Anybody who does that in any way whatsoever is met with fear and therefor unearned blowback because 1) they're challenging the comfortable status quo and 2) forcing the people applying the blowback to confront their own fears. Folks like us also inspire most people to think, "Damn! that guy's brave! If he can do THAT I should be able to do (fill in the blank) that I've always felt like doing."

It's because I have had so many people at church tell me how brave I am and that I've recognized what that feeling brings along in people that it's only been a few times since that I've gone to service in pants.

That said the other evening when I went to an Information Meeting at church, I'm glad I appeared in more traditionally male garb. A member of the Board challenged my bona fides and as I thought about it later, it's hard to make the case that I have the longer schlong when I'm in a skirt.

Of course if I had succeeded at doing that my challenger might have gained more respect for EVERYONE who wears skirts on a regular basis ... I'll have to think about that ...

Anyway, to get back to the original point, everyone, especially the folks in our forum, can help our "cause" by just presenting themselves as feels most natural in the situation and confidently be themselves. That's not to say that there are things I see posted here that I don't care for, but as I have said on a number of occasions, "Who am I to judge what anyone else wears?"

[moonshadow]

Well said Dave!

There are some looks on here that I personally feel do men in skirts no justice, I won't point them out because I don't want to isolate anyone, but that's just me and my opinion, which is really worth nothing on the matter, and rightfully so. As Dave said, it's just clothes, and... "who am I to judge?"

Skirt on fellas!

[jc.33]

There are some looks on here that I personally feel do men in skirts no justice, I won't point them out because I don't want to isolate anyone, but that's just me and my opinion, which is really worth nothing on the matter, and rightfully so. As Dave said, it's just clothes, and... "who am I to judge?"

I agree! Another thing to consider, there are some looks that even women don't do justice to. I'm sure if you got a group of women together wearing skirts several would have negative opinions of the other's clothing selection. It's all apart of being an individual and having one's own style, someone will always find a fault.

[hoborob]

As Dave said and I agree that there have been a few looks that I've seen here that really don't do justice to folks in the picture. But then as long as they are comfortable in what they are wearing who am I to pass judgement. I will however be thankful that none of the looks that have been posted evoke a sexual response and I'm certain that our moderators will not allow that to occur for which I am also thankful. I have been on sites that promote the usage of clothing from the other side of the aisle and for the most part those are equally clean. I have also said that if we are to successfully sell the concept that clothes are just that clothes, then we must act as if we are simply reasonable people that are comfortable with ourselves.

When the actions become sexual in nature or in of the "in your face" actions then we have crossed the line and will create a negative attitude in those we see and interact with. That is the type of activity that we must not associate with and even actively state that we do not approve of as a group. Just wear what your like and present yourself as reasonable and others will respect you, when you demand respect you're asking to be disrespected. Be respectful and you will be respected. But most of all be confident in who you are and others will let you be, and of course take care and do be aware of you surroundings to avoid trouble with those who would cause trouble just to cause trouble.