Going Flat

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
User avatar
skirtyscot
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:44 pm
Location: West Kilbride, Ayrshire, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Going Flat

Post by skirtyscot »

Indeed denimini, the less worn under one's skirt the better. But there are limits: https://encyclopediadramatica.se/File:PerryPenis.gif
Keep on skirting,

Alastair
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: Going Flat

Post by moonshadow »

skirtyscot wrote:Indeed denimini, the less worn under one's skirt the better. But there are limits: https://encyclopediadramatica.se/File:PerryPenis.gif
In that gif, I don't think he's (she's?) wearing underwear. You can tell.

That also tells me that this particular individual is doing nothing more than seeking publicity.

At the risk of going slightly off topic, I feel I must convey this thought.... that is somewhat difficult to word correctly... but,

Stories like the one of Lila Perry for some odd reason make me somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of wearing a skirt in public. I'm not sure why. It's not that I have a problem with what he's (or she's) doing, I could really care less... I don't know, I just feel like when the public see's me wearing a skirt or dress, they [the public] feel as though I'm some pervert trying to gain access to the girls bathroom... and I'm not. I rather bugs me, the idea that even those who "accept" what I do may be thinking to their selves "aww... look at him, he's so sweet trying to be a girl".... NO! That's not what I want at all!

I prefer the reaction of that redneck trucker who saw me at the Flying J that first time I took my Macabi out last summer, granted he was giving me some dirty looks, but he said to his buddy... "well I gotta say, he's got balls".... damn right!

So bringing this back on topic, that's why I don't worry about flattening out the front end. I'm still a dude after all, and despite my occasional soul searching in that department, it seems I always come back to just being happy with the way my body was made from the get go.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 14432
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: Going Flat

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:Stories like the one of Lila Perry for some odd reason make me somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of wearing a skirt in public. I'm not sure why.
One possible explanation of that disquiet might be that you're (in the abstract sense) worried that what others may think of you is what you though when seeing that image for the first time. It's a visceral reaction, not one rooted in logic, which is why it manifests as an emotional response instead of an intellectual one. It's likely something similar that drives various partners to be repulsed by our choice of attire.

This is why carriage and confidence are important for us.
I prefer the reaction of that redneck trucker who saw me at the Flying J that first time I took my Macabi out last summer, granted he was giving me some dirty looks, but he said to his buddy... "well I gotta say, he's got balls".... damn right!
Sometimes that's the best reaction we can hope for. It's not optimal by a long shot, but there was a grudging respect in his reaction which is good, and sometimes a grudging respect can open one's eyes more than a ready respect.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: Going Flat

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:This is why carriage and confidence are important for us.
Are you implying that a horse drawn buggy is preferable to an automobile while skirting in public? :lol:
crfriend wrote:One possible explanation of that disquiet might be that you're (in the abstract sense) worried that what others may think of you is what you though when seeing that image for the first time. It's a visceral reaction, not one rooted in logic, which is why it manifests as an emotional response instead of an intellectual one. It's likely something similar that drives various partners to be repulsed by our choice of attire.
Yeah, I think that's probably it. Which is why each time I force myself to shove my (maybe unfair?) prejudice on this down into the pit of my stomach, and continue to skirt on....

While I don't have an issue with boys that try to be girls or vice versa.... I also hope that society will come to understand that *some* of us, myself included just want to be viewed as "trying to be me", a man wearing what HE WANTS to wear.

Yes, I realize that that too, is vain on my part, and I'm somewhat a slave to my own vanity in that regard.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Going Flat

Post by Caultron »

denimini wrote:I suppose I am responding with a warm climate perspective but is seems that more than half of the joys of wearing a skirt would be lost by wearing so much tight fitting stuff under it...
I love going regimental, but I love the look and feel of tights as well. And thigh-highs tend to slip down, and garter belts have their own problems. So I switch off.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
denimini
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3224
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:50 am
Location: Outback Australia

Re: Going Flat

Post by denimini »

crfriend wrote:This is why carriage and confidence are important for us.
and ....
moonshadow wrote:Yes, I realize that that too, is vain on my part, and I'm somewhat a slave to my own vanity in that regard.
Some vanity is probably needed to maintain the "carriage and confidence", which is I think is essential to doing anything unconventional.
So dress flat if you personally prefer that look (or feel) but don't dress flat if only because you worry what others think.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Going Flat

Post by Caultron »

denimini wrote:...don't dress flat if only because you worry what others think.
I'm not considering a flat look because I'm worried what others think, but because I'm curious what they'd think.

That's part of what makes skirt-wearing interesting for me as well: it's interesting to see how others react.

I doubt it's something I'd ever do often; it'd just be an experiment.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
r.m.anderson
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2601
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:25 pm
Location: Burnsville MN USA

Re: Going Flat

Post by r.m.anderson »

My critic on the gif.

Very sloppily dressed (skirted) skirt is at almost the hip line.
Skirt appears to be too large a size for the individual.
Skirt should be raised to the waist level.
Blouse or 'T' shirt should be tucked in if skirt worn at waist.
If the skirt is worn at hip level the hem line of the blouse should not reach that level.
Yes there is movement in the front field of the skirt and may not have been so much if the skirt was worn at the waist.
Seems to be unaware of the camera (photo opt) until the last 3 mille seconds - note the eyes track to the camera and then away quickly.

But like the Pope who am I to judge ?

Then on the other hand I calls thems as I sees them !
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: Going Flat

Post by moonshadow »

r.m.anderson wrote:Very sloppily dressed (skirted) skirt is at almost the hip line.
Skirt appears to be too large a size for the individual.
Skirt should be raised to the waist level.
Blouse or 'T' shirt should be tucked in if skirt worn at waist.
If the skirt is worn at hip level the hem line of the blouse should not reach that level.
Yes there is movement in the front field of the skirt and may not have been so much if the skirt was worn at the waist.
I think the over all..... "strange" look of the gal is the hair. There's something about the hair, almost like it's made of plastic. It seems like a wig, but I can't be sure. It's way too much for her head. The shirt is also a bit oversized, and although I'm not judging, she has a "skinny boy's" bone structure that is making the whole think awkward. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm a weird looking fella myself... then again, I'm not the one trying to pass as a teenage girl either, so there's that....

Her breast look stuffed, and she needs to wear some briefs, or something like what was described at the start of this thread.

Regarding the wearing the skirt on the hip, I find that if I wear skirts on my waist, they work their way down to my high hip eventually. My waist, like many men's, do not contour like that of a "fit woman", it doesn't have a gentle hourglass shape. Everything from below the breast to the hip bone is virtually the same dimension, only at the hip does it widen out a few inches. So, having a boys bone structure, she may find that wearing skirts on her hip is her only option.

Her t-shirt looks like something a boy would wear. It's too loose. Women's blouses and shirts tend to hug the body.

In this shot: http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2015/n ... -3-600.jpg
She looks much more passable. Still got the plastic hair though.....

But... to thine own self be true. Lots of luck to her. I hope for her sake all this is genuine, and she doesn't wake up one day and regret all of this. I will say, based on my own intellect and recollection of when I was 17... she's either incredibly intelligent, or incredibly foolish. At that age, I had no idea what I wanted out of life (and still don't), and had no idea what the world was like. The point of this paragraph in my comment, is that one of the biggest wishes I have, would be to go back to when I was 17 and have a "do over". Here's hoping she doesn't have the same thoughts at 35.

Then again... if I had a "do over", I'd be wearing a skirt in high school too. Wouldn't be trying to use the girls bathroom... but would be wearing a skirt no less. Then again, I say that, but dad would have probably thrown me out. Plus I'm not sure if 1997 was ready for a boy skirt wearer in Virginia. Kids have it made these days! :D
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
User avatar
denimini
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3224
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:50 am
Location: Outback Australia

Re: Going Flat

Post by denimini »

Caultron wrote:
denimini wrote:...don't dress flat if only because you worry what others think.
I'm not considering a flat look because I'm worried what others think, but because I'm curious what they'd think.

That's part of what makes skirt-wearing interesting for me as well: it's interesting to see how others react.

I doubt it's something I'd ever do often; it'd just be an experiment.
Fair enough, we are all curious about what people think but we will never know, even if they tell us that they think this or that we still don't know what they really think.
I am all for experimentation, probably what led most of us to be wearing skirts now.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
dillon
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: southeast NC coast

Re: Going Flat

Post by dillon »

Lila Perry didn't do her image or cause any favors by failing to suppress her genitalia. While I support her as a transgender youth, she needs to exhibit some restraint and maturity. She should fight for her rights, but not in a graphically offensive manner, and her parents should be advising her to that end. I'd encourage her to take lessons in discipline and demeanor from the brave African-American students who were the first to challenge the segratation of all-white public schools and universities.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: Going Flat

Post by moonshadow »

dillon wrote:Lila Perry didn't do her image or cause any favors by failing to suppress her genitalia. While I support her as a transgender youth, she needs to exhibit some restraint and maturity. She should fight for her rights, but not in a graphically offensive manner, and her parents should be advising her to that end. I'd encourage her to take lessons in discipline and demeanor from the brave African-American students who were the first to challenge the segratation of all-white public schools and universities.
One interesting hypothetical I ran whilst thinking about this earlier is...

What if a boy about Lila's age, decided "he was a girl inside", and thus, began to call himself transgender, BUT didn't dress like a girl, no skirts, no dresses, no long hair, makeup, etc? To look at our hypothetical "boy", he just looked like an ordinary boy. Yet his "soul" is that of a girl. Should he be denied use of girls facilities? This isn't meant to start debate... I'm really hung on this little paradox personally and I'm not sure which way to lean.

Is it our "inner self" that makes a transgender a transgender? Or is it just the clothes they wear? If it's the latter, frankly that seems somewhat shallow. Consider that there are girls EVERYWHERE that wear cargo pants, and boy's tee's, they may even have shorter hair cuts, and no makeup, but still confidently live their life as a female. Many even going so far as to be a part of the traditional nuclear family.

I post this question here, because I feel if anyone would understand the dynamic of my hypothetical... we would, as many of us DO wear "women's clothes", yet we DO NOT identify as a woman or transgender... just men wearing what we want, and thus, I would assume as such, we all use the men's room.

I stand with Lila's decision to transition. That was a personal choice of hers, that effected nobody else, and thus nobody else has any right to judge her for it. However her insistence to use the girls room DID effect others. I'm a little "iffy" about that. Personally, I think she should have just accepted the compromise. Her school system offered her much more than most schools would, that being the use of a faculty restroom. After all, under that wig, skirt, t-shirt, and makeup is a biological boy. Now I personally believe that having facilities divided by sex is rather silly. I think the ultimate solution for ALL of this would be to just do away with men's and women's rooms, and just combine them....

...but... I do understand that we are probably MANY MANY MANY generations from such an advancement of evolution. Human's MUST evolve past seeing ourselves only skin deep in order for that to take place, and we aren't anywhere near that stage yet.

Still wondering where's my fame for being denied a fitting room....? (nah j/k I don't want any part of that action)

-Moon (proud to have taken his conservative slap in the face with stride, and not make a big fuss about it)
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
Ralph
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Going Flat

Post by Ralph »

moonshadow wrote:What if a boy about Lila's age, decided "he was a girl inside", and thus, began to call himself transgender, BUT didn't dress like a girl, no skirts, no dresses, no long hair, makeup, etc? To look at our hypothetical "boy", he just looked like an ordinary boy. Yet his "soul" is that of a girl. Should he be denied use of girls facilities? This isn't meant to start debate... I'm really hung on this little paradox personally and I'm not sure which way to lean.
You raise an interesting, and thorny, point that is a bit off-topic for this thread and certainly off-topic for this forum; I'll understand if the admins don't want us to chase down that rabbit hole here.

As a parent, I would be extremely uncomfortable with the situation you describe. Heck, as a parent I'm extremely uncomfortable about Perry's current demands to use the girls' restroom and changing facilities while still mechanically male. Perry tries to portray this as a civil rights fight against unreasoning bigotry; Perry doesn't have the first clue about what is going on in the minds of parents and students, or even what goes on in the minds of most boys her age.

I am hardly one to throw the first stone about how someone identifies with gender issues. So I am perfectly OK with Lila Perry's belief that she is inherently female on the inside, contradictory to all biological evidence on the outside. If and when she gets SRS and/or hormone treatments to get as close to biologically female as it is possible for someone with a Y chromosome, I'd be at the forefront of the fight to have her accepted and treated as female with no reservations or restrictions at all, including standing naked in a locker room with other naked teenage girls.

But for now... the concern is not that "some freak" might behave in an unpredictable manner around innocent defenseless girls. The concern is that there is still a biological male following all the instincts of a biological male, beyond the control of this clearly impulsive and confrontational person. I would not be worried about some freak around my little girl; I would be worried about some BOY around my little girl, behaving in an entirely predictable manner that you'd expect from a teenage boy being around naked teenage girls.

Do. Not. Want.

God bless you, Lila Perry, and I hope you do find yourself and become what you dream of being. But until it's more than just a difference between deciding to wear a skirt instead of jeans when you go out in the morning, you're not coming anywhere near my daughter that's not in a situation with plenty of adult supervision and everyone fully clothed.
Ralph!
dillon
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: southeast NC coast

Re: Going Flat

Post by dillon »

Sans female attire, I think the young person would play right into Mike Huckabee's contention that boys would be proclaiming themselves transgender just to see naked girls in the locker room. But if Huckabee thinks boys would go to that potential humiliation just to see naked girls, he is apparently totally unfamiliar with the internet...
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
User avatar
denimini
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3224
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:50 am
Location: Outback Australia

Re: Going Flat

Post by denimini »

I agree that wearing a skirt is not enough reason to use a female toilet (a declining segregation anyway). I certainly have no problem going to the Mens and standing at a urinal, lifting the front of the mini .......... and to keep on the original topic; that is something that is not so easy if one has a number of tight fitting layers underneath.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
Post Reply