On crossdressing

[partlyscot]

The following is mostly a statement of my opinion and viewpoint. It is not meant to be a criticism of anyone else’s opinion, or of their lifestyle or clothing choices. I hope I don't offend anyone with this, it is not my intent.

i got hollered at on here for introducing myself here as a crossdresser. i am a man that wears female attire. some everyday and some on occassion. i will leave it at that. i do consider myself to be a cd. but i am not trying to id myself as a woman.
.

I have a problem with that statement after viewing a picture on one of your other posts. In profile, you are wearing a dress, and appear to have on foundation garments that give a narrower waist, definite bustline, and possibly padded hips. While I understand that you probably, like me, have a very definite male head, and no-one is going to think you are actually female, this female silhouette,with the male persona, is extremely jarring, and I don't think it helps the general intent of this website. I have no issue with CD members as such, and indeed the definition of where the line between CD and not is subject to interpretation. For me, being able to wear any kind of clothing is liberating, but in my own mind, anything with a design feature intended for a definitely female attributes, i.e. low cut neckline that only works with a bust and/or cleavage, is where that line is. Therefore my tops are male, or can pass for such. I could see myself wearing a female top if it fitted, just for the colour or decoration, but cannot see the point of one where the neckline is cut to enhance breasts, or wearing breast forms.

I would therefore ask, you to please consider removing the picture.

however a person views themselves is true to that person. it works if you work it.

Agreed, but I think how you identify is not what this site is about, I would like others to give their opinion. I am actually glad that there is some discussion of crossdressing so far, as I think a blanket ban is not particularly helpful. I don't feel examples of what I consider to be actual crossdressing are helpful either. I really feel conflicted about posting this, I am not one to push my attitudes on others, and I defer to the general attitudes of the members in total. I do want to put my own views out there though, as not doing so is tantamount to consent. Please, if this post gets you upset, or annoyed, then yes, say so, and explain why, but do consider your words carefully.

[Ralph]

Agreed, but I think how you identify is not what this site is about, I would like others to give their opinion.

OK, I'll bite. First a little background to put my response in context.
I do accept the label of crossdresser, because not only do I choose to wear clothes that our current society on the whole has decreed should be worn by women, but my preference in fabrics and styles are decidedly feminine -- soft fabrics, billowy skirts, decorative touches not found on men's clothes. But I also consider myself, and present myself, as fully male inside and out. I put a lot of effort into finding clothes that do NOT enhance or otherwise call attention to body parts I don't have, which usually means I find myself browsing catalogs of "modest" dresses with high necklines.

So all that said, I came here specifically to get away from the myriad crossdresser-specific sites. I find that I have nothing in common with those folks - they talk about hiding this and tucking that and how to pass and wanting or getting or enduring hormone therapy. Not, as they say, that there's anything wrong with that but it ain't me. There are ten billion sites for discussing that, and exactly one -- this one -- for discussing the clothes without the sex issues.

So, you want to tell us how fabulous you look or feel with your taffeta prom gown and lacy crinoline? Great! I'll demand to know where I can get it in a jumbo size 28, and hope they take Paypal. But if this becomes another place where we talk about bras and using "femme" names, I'll pass. Uh, no pun intended.

And apologies to the OP who started this conversation; I realize my response comes across sounding a bit harsh and judgemental. Let me stress, I have no negative perception of folks who do find meaning in that scene; I'm just saying that there are better forums than this to discuss that aspect of life.

[moonshadow]

And apologies to the OP who started this conversation; I realize my response comes across sounding a bit harsh and judgemental

No apology needed, I find myself in for the most part in agreement with your post.

I too enjoy some of the more "girly" skirts and looks. I don't hide the fact that I gladly explore my feminine side, however my over all character is that of a man. In some ironic way, it's that masculinity that prompts me to wear the most "daring" feminine skirts. As a man, I don't like the idea that I'm controlled by the whims of society and what the expect me to wear. As a man, I feel that I should create my own style, and blaze my own trail through life.... to do things my way. I wear my skirts (all of them) because I want to, because I like them, because I think they are fun, and because I'm a free man, and as a free man, nobody is going to tell me otherwise. Does wearing a ruffly bohemian skirt make me a crossdresser? Well that's something each person decides on their own.

My perfectly straight sister dons mens hunting apparel and goes hunting with her boyfriend. She four wheels, goes out drinking, watches sports, and is more or less a Tom boy. She engages in activities traditionally associated with men, so does that make her some type of transgender? Is she a crossdresser? Of course not! She's just a woman doing what she wants to do. Why is it so different with us? Bra's makeup, panties, and all those other body enhancing things ARE NOT for me. I like skirts, and some dresses. I'm really not crazy about blouses because I don't think the fit right. I can respect the scope of this website for what it allows. I have seen the crossdressers website forums and to me there is no question that the overall atmosphere of the topics there verses the topics here ARE different.

As far as girlyboy's post... well I don't have a dog in that fight. I'm not a moderator. Speaking for myself, I don't care what he post. I can think of about a million more important things worthy of complaint. I'd also be the pot calling the kettle black anyway, as I know I have skirted (no pun intended) the rules on this website a time or two myself. To me, he seems like he's having fun, and that's really what it's all about. I also congratulate him on his recent outing. The man's got balls to pull that off in 'Bama.... gotta give him that! ... Respect!

[denimini]

I say that I am not crossdressing and am changing the status of a skirt to that of neutral gender but others may look and think the skirt remains a womans garment and thus I must be crossdressing. I can understand that thinking, until skirts are widely accepted as neutral gender. That doesn't worry me, I will continue to wear what I like and I don't feel the need to prove or portray "masculinity". The same applies to other garments, footwear, colours, patterns, etc. and when it is all considered neutral gender there will be no such thing as crossdressing.
Crossdressing is akin to a clothing fashion anti-aparteid movement, and that should be commended.

[crfriend]

Crossdressing is akin to a clothing fashion anti-aparteid movement, and that should be commended.

In that light I entirely concur; however, the problem is that the term "crossdressing" is overloaded with value judgments which -- to my mind -- makes it unacceptable unless we want to get into a fight to "take the word back".

[renesm1]

I agree with most of the comments (if not all) on crossdressing.

As mentioned earlier, there is probably only this website that caters for men that not only feel they are men inside (i.e. not transgendered) but do not want to pass as a woman (i.e. not transvestite) either. They do, however, want the right to wear what they want without someone else making a negative judgement, or, indeed, making threats of violence against us.

I think we would also want to reclaim those traits more commonly associated with women (nurturing, et al.) without people thinking this is some sign that we want to become women.

I've been on this website and its predecessors for nearly twenty years and progress has been slow but at least in the right direction.

While we should always be welcoming to transgendered and transvestite people, we need to make it clear that we have a right to express ourselves in our way- which is in much the same way that most women nowadays wear whatever they want without someone questioning their motives. That is not quite what transgendered/transvestite people want, however it is what I want, and I think most men on this board want.

I do hope I live to see the day when I can go to a clothes shop for people (not menswear/womenswear) and see all styles available in men's and women's sizes - with skirts and dresses still available!!!

(Sorry if the above seems a bit random, it does read more like a mind dump than a coherent narrative!)

[moonshadow]

While we should always be welcoming to transgendered and transvestite people, we need to make it clear that we have a right to express ourselves in our way- which is in much the same way that most women nowadays wear whatever they want without someone questioning their motives.

BULLSEYE! Dead smack center!

To me, and I would venture a guess to most members here.... it's not about trying to "pass" as a woman, or even look remotely like a woman, rather it's about a man's freedom to wear what he wants.... and still be a man!

[rick401r]

i got hollered at on here for introducing myself here as a crossdresser. i am a man that wears female attire. some everyday and some on occassion. i will leave it at that. i do consider myself to be a cd. but i am not trying to id myself as a woman.
anyways, however a person views themselves is true to that person. it works if you work it.

I recall in the early days of my membership here ( or maybe in was Skirtsformen) I posted a photo of myself in a skirt with a shirt and tie. I also was wearing a bra with obvious projection. I was rather harshly criticized for crossdressing. Opinions of members here and on the other site have changed over time and being a crossdresser is not as thought of in a negative way. We are all here for the same reason. We like to wear skirts.

[dillon]

Crossdressing is akin to a clothing fashion anti-aparteid movement, and that should be commended.

In that light I entirely concur; however, the problem is that the term "crossdressing" is overloaded with value judgments which -- to my mind -- makes it unacceptable unless we want to get into a fight to "take the word back".

I have a more traditional association with the term, and don't see it in the light, as Caultron suggested, that it simply means crossing the aisle to buy your clothes. It still has, for most of us, the implication of female impersonation, and this site, from it's inception, has been oriented toward men in kilts and skirts, without judging gender identity or sexual orientation, but presenting decisively as men.

I don't have an issue with whatever other items someone may enjoy wearing with their unbifurcated garments...we are all unique to varying degrees and all adapt non-traditional fashion ideas to varying degrees...including myself. (And I have been cautioned even for discussing men's underwear.) But once we start discussing bust enhancement and other things that really seem designed to imitate women, then we are "muddying the stream" as far as SC goes. I would have to concur with others that such discussions and revelations may fit more appropriately on another site. I think it's well beyond the idea of "freestyling" as we have traditionally seen it on SC.

We stretch the envelope pretty far on SC, which is fine, but we should remember the stated mission and theme of the site, regardless of the fact that the policies may have just evolved from the comfort zones of the departed founder and of original and senior members, and may seem to some to be overly restrictive. We are certainly friends here, and, to variable extents, "birds of a feather," but it's one thing to pull hues from the rainbow, and another to duplicate the full spectrum.

[phathack]

Cross-dressing has different meanings to different groups of people. In the loosest sense I'm a crossdressor because I wear womans skits, pants, leggings etc. However If you go to one of the cross dressing forums and read you will see that they are trying to look like the opposite sex and that's not what I'm doing. Since I'm not trying to look like a woman that would not make me a crossdressor under their definition of cross-dressing. So take you pick of which deffiniation you prefer, I choose the latter in that I consider clothing to not have a gender attached to them. In that a skirt if simply a garmet that is worn by humans.

I have found that I prefer the fit and styles of jeans and pants found in the womens department in that they have a cut to fit the different proportions of a woman as well as being made from a stretchy fabric and are not the loose baggy things found in the mens department. Unless you are a fashionista you probably cant tell that the jeans I'm wearing at work are in a womens size and cut and not from the mens department.

In the end how I dress and present myself is my choice, as long as I'm wearing clothing that cover up all the naughty bits, then what difference is it how i'm dressed.

[moonshadow]

Well, aside from the little flare up's here and there, I think this has been a very positive and informative thread. It has given me a lot of perspectives on how to address this issue with inquiring minds out and about.

As I don't know about you all, but often times when the subject of my skirt wearing comes up in the real world (case in point.... my mother), I get asked that old worn out question... "are you a crossdresser?" When preparing to answer.... it is good to be armed with some different points of view. To this day... I answer "no". Granted, many people in the world would disagree with me.... but I guess it really doesn't matter.

By the way.... in regards to that... my mother sent me a birthday card (Dec 27), and in it was a note that said that she is proud of me, and remember "to thine own self be true". This message was after I told her about my skirts, and she saw some photo's, and so, can only assume this is a good thing.

So keeping with Mom's advice, regardless of what you call yourself, or others call you.... "to thine own self be true".

[Caultron]

There are those here who attach negative associations with cross-dressers and who, therefore, despite wearing skirts and perhaps other normally-feminine garments themselves, define cross-dressing so as not to include themselves.

To me it's only semantics but oh well.

[denimini]

Regardless of the definition of crossdressing, some of us at sometime will be considered by others as crossdressers and that will not change until the various elements of our personal styles have become widely accepted by other men.
Presenting decisively as men is no doubt an underlying premise on SC. Defining this is something I am still getting my head around. For example; I bought a floaty viscose skirt that is absolutely wonderful to wear but I was inhibited with initial thoughts that is was too feminine, particularly with a cheerfully spotted material. I felt resentful that a man couldn't wear something like that - until I posed the same questions as with skirts generally. I answered the door in it the other day and it did generate a comment of surprise where a denim mini wouldn't have. At least with a beard and hairy legs I am not mistaken as transgender but I still might be thought of as a failed crossdresser by some. I really don't care.
I don't think anyone here is trying to portray themselves as a woman, we are just being ourselves.

[Bamaskirting]

The following is mostly a statement of my opinion and viewpoint. It is not meant to be a criticism of anyone else’s opinion, or of their lifestyle or clothing choices. I hope I don't offend anyone with this, it is not my intent.

i got hollered at on here for introducing myself here as a crossdresser. i am a man that wears female attire. some everyday and some on occassion. i will leave it at that. i do consider myself to be a cd. but i am not trying to id myself as a woman.
.

I have a problem with that statement after viewing a picture on one of your other posts. In profile, you are wearing a dress, and appear to have on foundation garments that give a narrower waist, definite bustline, and possibly padded hips. While I understand that you probably, like me, have a very definite male head, and no-one is going to think you are actually female, this female silhouette,with the male persona, is extremely jarring, and I don't think it helps the general intent of this website. I have no issue with CD members as such, and indeed the definition of where the line between CD and not is subject to interpretation. For me, being able to wear any kind of clothing is liberating, but in my own mind, anything with a design feature intended for a definitely female attributes, i.e. low cut neckline that only works with a bust and/or cleavage, is where that line is. Therefore my tops are male, or can pass for such. I could see myself wearing a female top if it fitted, just for the colour or decoration, but cannot see the point of one where the neckline is cut to enhance breasts, or wearing breast forms.

I would therefore ask, you to please consider removing the picture.

however a person views themselves is true to that person. it works if you work it.

Agreed, but I think how you identify is not what this site is about, I would like others to give their opinion. I am actually glad that there is some discussion of crossdressing so far, as I think a blanket ban is not particularly helpful. I don't feel examples of what I consider to be actual crossdressing are helpful either. I really feel conflicted about posting this, I am not one to push my attitudes on others, and I defer to the general attitudes of the members in total. I do want to put my own views out there though, as not doing so is tantamount to consent. Please, if this post gets you upset, or annoyed, then yes, say so, and explain why, but do consider your words carefully.

ah it was you then. by the way, i do not pad my hips. that is my natural body. and when we purchase skirts and other garments that is intended for ladies, ususally that body is going to be expressed more visibly. so i guess i have a feminine body from below the chest. sorry for offending by how i was born. i am not trying to start an argument, but i just want to say one thing in a very respectful manner. we ALL wear skirts here. some wear kilts. in western society, it is frowned upon. but we do it anyways. but it is all good. i cannot please everyone. and i must admit this is quite fun.and i did remove the picture even though i was told i did not have too. i am trying to be cordial. and no, you did not offend me. i will admit i was wearing. i cannot say that word. but my hips..no they are mine. feel free to message me. this is fun in a way and i am learning so much

[Caultron]

Regardless of the definition of crossdressing, some of us at sometime will be considered by others as crossdressers and that will not change until the various elements of our personal styles have become widely accepted by other men.
Presenting decisively as men is no doubt an underlying premise on SC. Defining this is something I am still getting my head around. For example; I bought a floaty viscose skirt that is absolutely wonderful to wear but I was inhibited with initial thoughts that is was too feminine, particularly with a cheerfully spotted material. I felt resentful that a man couldn't wear something like that - until I posed the same questions as with skirts generally. I answered the door in it the other day and it did generate a comment of surprise where a denim mini wouldn't have. At least with a beard and hairy legs I am not mistaken as transgender but I still might be thought of as a failed crossdresser by some. I really don't care.
I don't think anyone here is trying to portray themselves as a woman, we are just being ourselves.

Yes, it all depends on where your tastes fall along a continuum, and where your personal definition of cross-dressing draws the line.