Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Thank you Pelmut for patiently and comprehensively responding to these all too common misperceptions.

I just wish to clarify one question you had, when it comes to transpeople making a legal issue of how they were addressed or otherwise treated, the cases here in the US are no different than what Pelmut described in the UK.

Finally, as far as changing restrooms from gendered to gender-neutral goes, it's much less of an undertaking than Dust describes. Installing taller stall dividers doesn't take much planning nor is it that big of an expense. Especially when you consider the wretched state of so many public restrooms. I'd like a nickel for every one of them that I've gone into where the latch doesn't work!
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rivegauche
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by rivegauche »

I don't think the current attention on transgender is helping anyone, not even the transgendered people. When an icon like Germaine Greer can be no platformed things have gone bonkers. People like JK Rowling and being horribly attacked by people who claim to be preaching tolerance!!

I am not remotely transgendered but go a bit further than most members of he Skirt Café because I often dress and present as a woman. It is acting - I do it for fun. However for the public, anyone who does this obviously wants to be a woman. I don't. I think recreational cross-dressers and men who just want to wear a skirt do not exist for most people - they just see a bloke in what they regard as womenswear and conclude he wants to be a woman. I do not pass as a woman. I look good in a dress (I usually add a bra and forms) but no one is going to mistake me for a woman. No one gives me a hard time. I get treated very well in shops, hotels, wherever, and no one shouts at me in the street whether I have gone the whole hog or simply worn a skirt or dress. The one place I get abuse is on a site called crossdressers.com, of all places, where they insist I must be transgender and if I believe otherwise I am lying or deluded.

I am staying out of this 'debate' because it is not a debate - it is a vicious shouting match (I mean the wider one, not the one on this thread). I will just do my own thing and lead by example. I try to avoid using a toilet when I am out and in about 300 excursions dressed as a woman I have only used a Ladies about 3-4 times - in hotels and with permission - except on one occasion I had a woman friend with me for moral support. I have used fitting rooms in womenswear stores or in the dress section of department stores more often dressed as a male than I have dressed as a woman, without any problems. I just wish they were a bit more private - full height doors (not curtains) that can be locked would help everyone. There are shops that sell to both genders that have only one fitting room with proper private cubicles and no one cares. There are now all-gender toilets and people are generally fine with that. The sky does not fall in. What happened to "live and let live"? I had hoped that was a quote from the Bible but unfortunately it isn't.

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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

However for the public, anyone who does this obviously wants to be a woman.


Where do you get that? What is your evidence?

In fact, the way you describe your life implies the opposite. As best as I can tell, nearly everyone takes me for what I am, a man who prefers dresses to trousers who takes some pains to look good in them: I have my nails done, shave my legs, have grown my hair down to my jaw line, wear at least a little makeup; but usually get called "Sir" by sales associates and wait staff. The most frequent exceptions being when I am out with a gay woman friend of mine. We often get asked, "What would you ladies like?" But anyone who interacts with me on a regular basis never has any doubt of my sexual identity or orientation.

Finally, as to the habitues of crossdressers.com saying you MUST be "transgendered," do they mean in the general sense that you're somewhere in that grey area between the two poles of the Gender Binary, or in the specific sense of being stuck in the wrong body? If it's the former, they're just making a statement of fact. Frankly, by that standard, nearly everyone is transgendered in one way or another. If it's the latter sense, I'm floored. Back when I was an active crossdresser, mid-80's to the Aughts, we all accepted one-another's self-identification. If anything, I wondered why a few of my peers all of a sudden decided they were, as we put it then, "transsexual." But I never expressed those doubts because they knew themselves better than I did.
Last edited by Pdxfashionpioneer on Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by pelmut »

rivegauche wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:57 pm
When an icon like Germaine Greer can be no platformed things have gone bonkers. People like JK Rowling and being horribly attacked by people who claim to be preaching tolerance!!
I agree that attacking people in that way is wrong, but a bit more light needs to be shone on what they did that provoked it:

How do you think transgender people feel when Germaine Greer says things like:
Just because you lop off your d**k and then wear a dress doesn't make you a ******* woman. I’ve asked my doctor to give me long ears and liver spots and I’m going to wear a brown coat but that won’t turn me into a ******* cocker spaniel.
“I do understand that some people are born intersex and they deserve support in coming to terms with their gender but it’s not the same thing. A man who gets his d**k chopped off is actually inflicting an extraordinary act of violence on himself.
She doesn't even know that intersex is nothing to do with gender and yet her views were held up by the media as those of an expert.  There should have been no need to no-platform her, she should never have been invited on that particular platform in the first place; her views on that subject are no more valid than those of an ignorant passer-by.

I have every sympathy with J.K. Rowling for the trauma she has been through, but it was absolutely nothing to do with transgender people and she has allowed herself to become a tool of the anti-trans brigade by thoughtlessly repeating their mantras.  She has gone down in the estimation of lot of people, trans and cis, for her lack of understanding of the plight of trans children and her apparent support for those who are trying to do them further harm.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by moonshadow »

Though I don't consider myself transgender, I've said it before, and I still hold to it, if the trans community is willing to accept me into their fold, then I'm grateful for the friendship and camaraderie.

I no longer try to analyze the trans situation, nor do I offer up opinions on the matter. It is what it is and we are what we are, and I'm happy to support and stand with transgender people with all my heart.

I honestly have no idea why Rowling even felt it necessary to offer up an opinion anyway... why are so many people seemingly obsessed with being contrary all of the time?

Frankly, the life and times of a transgender person really isn't any of her business, nor is it ours. Either love them anyway or leave them alone.

So... she says transwomen aren't women... whoopdiedo! Who the hell crowned her the Supreme queen of what is and isn't? Her books indicate witches are females and wizards are male... bullsh!t... Male witches exist, and have been written about longer than her majesty has been around... so what does she know of gender anyway?

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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by Jim »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:41 pm

So... she says transwomen aren't women... whoopdiedo! Who the hell crowned her the Supreme queen of what is and isn't?
I find what helps me most in getting along with others on such issues is to understand that many words have multiple definitions. A transwoman is a woman by some definitions and not by others. Simple. Everyone knows that words can have many meanings.

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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Post by crfriend »

Jim wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:43 pm
I find what helps me most in getting along with others on such issues is to understand that many words have multiple definitions.
My personal tactic for getting along with folks is to evaluate each one as an individual and to formulate ways of coming to a common understanding -- which is almost always possible. From experience, the only folks I find I don't get on well with in person are the very hard-core point-of-view pushers who simply demand too much, and those with "faith" so powerful that it blinds them to what passes for reality today. The former I tend to regard as boors and the latter as simply hopeless.

I have said it before but it bears repeating, "There is vastly more that unites us than divides us as human beings. Seek the commonality and the solutions where all can benefit."
Last edited by crfriend on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix typos
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