The definition of Crossdressing...

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
pelmut
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by pelmut »

John wrote: 2. "standurd" is singular, so "is" is correct. Instead, use "are" but mispell "are" as "ar"

Now the sentence would come out like, "There standurd ov gramer and speling ar apaling two!" :lol:
Sorry, I made a mistake. It should have been "There standards ov gramer and speling is apaling to!".

...I think....
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by Grok »

crfriend wrote:
Grok wrote:I was thinking that Skirt Cafe may be obscure, and almost the only forum which welcomes free stylers.
If SkirtCafe is obscure, it's likely more down to the false notion that if a guy wants to wear a skirt just for the simple pleasure and comfort of the thing then he has to go the whole nine yards. I think this is also the fear that drives many wives and girlfriends here who are entirely unsupportive of, or even outright hostile to, their guy who, in all probability, just wants a break from the utter drabness that is what's allowed guys in common custom today.
Perhaps it is largely a matter of what you have heard of? For example, what if a wife has only heard of the orthodox CD/TV? And then her husband voices a desire to wear skirts?

Society may compound the problem by forcing into the closet the very people who could educate others, the non-comformists. What do others have to go on, but ignorance and stereotypes?

For many years I thought that I must be a tranny, because I was drawn to the idea of a male wearing one pipe. However, I could not get interested in the female impersonator thing.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by skirted_in_SF »

I frequently mention this site to people who are thinking of wearing skirts at other sites that I frequent. I always say upfront that this site is oriented toward men wearing comfortable clothing, not feminizing.
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Sinned
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by Sinned »

plmt, "and" should become "'nd" ( there's a leading apostrophe in there )and "is" should become "iz". I think????
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by crfriend »

skirted_in_SF wrote:I frequently mention this site to people who are thinking of wearing skirts at other sites that I frequent. I always say upfront that this site is oriented toward men wearing comfortable clothing, not feminizing.
Can you tell if this has generated any interest? Hostility? What I'm trying to ascertain from that is whether there are any synergies between the "camps" or whether they're so different that there really is no common ground.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by STEVIE »

I was a very definite cross dresser, that's been posted elsewhere. I didn't have any other point of reference for wearing skirts other than appearing "en femme".
In time, I discovered the alternative and here I am. I'm damn sure my story is not unique and there are a hell of a lot of guys who are in just the situation I was. That would be our first "commonality".
What's more in the eyes of the average "Joe", I still am, a crossdresser, that is. En femme, or not, there is always scrutiny and judgement going on. That would be a second.
For a third, there is the pressure on the individual. A guy to wear "female" attire is wrong, end of story.
I think we see enough expressions of this in the cafe to justify that statement. Appearing as a guy in a skirt does not ease this it seems.
From my own experience, I probably found it easier going out in the femme disguise than I did "openly" skirted. That is, until I actually learned to savour and enjoy the experience.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by JohnH »

And it's all right for a woman to wear men's clothing. You see TV programs where women in law enforcement wear shirts buttoned in the way men's shirts are. Sheesh, talk about double standards!

All I would have to do if I wanted to wear a dress or a skirt disguised as a woman would be to raise the pitch of my voice. I don't have to worry about wigs, breast forms, or hip pads since I have long hair, breasts, and wide hips. But my deep bass voice is a part of me.

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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:I was a very definite cross dresser, that's been posted elsewhere. I didn't have any other point of reference for wearing skirts other than appearing "en femme".
Interestingly, I knew of "orthodox crossdressing" but the practice of such never entered my mind when I first contemplated donning a skirt and ultimately wearing them in public. I suppose I was lucky enough to make the jump in one shot and that was that.
What's more in the eyes of the average "Joe", I still am, a crossdresser, that is. En femme, or not, there is always scrutiny and judgement going on.
I'm not sure on that. Based on my personal experience, I am entirely accepted by those around me including plenty of "working stiffs" and non-intellectuals. There are plenty of folks at a decidedly "working-class" bar I frequent who have never seen me in trousers and with whom I have cordial relationships with, based on understanding, respect, and capability -- and this in a rather "tough" town.
A guy to wear "female" attire is wrong, end of story.
I think this is down to how one does it more than anything else, and one's confidence in himself goes a very long way to defuse any potential problems. Knowing that he is not "wrong" -- although flaunting convention -- is key. Yes, I know that every time I throw on a skirt instead of trousers I'm poking a stick in society's eye. My view on this is that society ought to wear safety-glasses and lighten up a bit.

Timidity seems to be the norm -- a desire to not "rock the boat". It turns out that from observation, "the boat" has a very deep and very heavy keel and it's almost impossible to rock it to the point of capsize. Most of those around the bloke in a skirt may possibly not notice, or, even if they do won't cause a ruckus.
I think we see enough expressions of this in the cafe to justify that statement. Appearing as a guy in a skirt does not ease this it seems.
We do see it, and I find it sad. For the most part, if one comports himself with confidence and flair those around him will rally to it. If one skulks about in the shadows he's vastly more likely to receive grief. If you're in for a penny, then you're in for a pound; there is no half-way.
From my own experience, I probably found it easier going out in the femme disguise than I did "openly" skirted. That is, until I actually learned to savour and enjoy the experience.
That is an interesting observation indeed. It doesn't mirror mine, but I'd be very interested to hear from other folks on the matter. I might be an edge-case.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by skirted_in_SF »

crfriend wrote:
skirted_in_SF wrote:I frequently mention this site to people who are thinking of wearing skirts at other sites that I frequent. I always say upfront that this site is oriented toward men wearing comfortable clothing, not feminizing.
Can you tell if this has generated any interest? Hostility? What I'm trying to ascertain from that is whether there are any synergies between the "camps" or whether they're so different that there really is no common ground.
Definitely not hostility since I normally only bring it up in threads that are already talking about wearing skirts. I know a couple of people have mentioned also being members here. Whether they were members before I posted a link or as a result, I'm not sure. I've been posting a link to the SkirtCafe main page, whenever it was appropriate, for two or three years .
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by crfriend »

skirted_in_SF wrote:Definitely not hostility since I normally only bring it up in threads that are already talking about wearing skirts. I know a couple of people have mentioned also being members here.
That's good news. I was a little bit worried that the hard-core crossdressers would be just as hostile to us lot as the hard-core kilt purists.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by Grok »

crfriend wrote: I was a little bit worried that the hard-core crossdressers would be just as hostile to us lot as the hard-core kilt purists.
I would imagine that free stylers feel uncomfortable when participating in a tranny forum.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by Tor »

Grok wrote:I would imagine that free stylers feel uncomfortable when participating in a tranny forum.
I was aware of cross-dressing proper, and had tried on a skirt that ended up in my closet by means that to this day I still do not know and probably never will. Still, the rest of crossdressing and attempting to look like a woman drove me away until I found this forum. Indeed, I can't say as I ever actually considered wearing a skirt in public until this forum.
crfriend wrote:I think this is down to how one does it more than anything else, and one's confidence in himself goes a very long way to defuse any potential problems. Knowing that he is not "wrong" -- although flaunting convention -- is key. Yes, I know that every time I throw on a skirt instead of trousers I'm poking a stick in society's eye. My view on this is that society ought to wear safety-glasses and lighten up a bit.
I like that last sentence in particular. I've only gotten so far myself, but last I checked, society can only improve by the acts of venturous souls flouting convention to forge a new and better path. Indeed, I'm not sure I can name a major change for the better that wasn't preceeded by mockery of the pioneers and often early adopters.
[Finding it easier going out en-femme] is an interesting observation indeed. It doesn't mirror mine, but I'd be very interested to hear from other folks on the matter. I might be an edge-case.
Possibly an edge-case, or perhaps just the expected experience of someone who is thorougly comfortable as a man and therefore won't seriously consider even attempting an en-femme appearance. Given my own experience, I'd be inclined to believe the latter.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by dillon »

Grok wrote:
crfriend wrote: I was a little bit worried that the hard-core crossdressers would be just as hostile to us lot as the hard-core kilt purists.
I would imagine that free stylers feel uncomfortable when participating in a tranny forum.
I would say that, despite the obviously different goals of respective fashion choices, freestylers like me can still communicate productively with the trans- world, if only by virtue of addressing common issues with fitting or adapting fashion intended for female bodies to male bodies. Additionally, as with the gay community, it is the reception by the straight, gender-fashion conforming part of society that commonly unites us. There is a significant fraction of society that draws no real distinction between freestylers and their gay or transvestite or transgender or transsexual brethern. In that regard we have commonality. The question to be asked is whether the said brethern understand freestylers to any greater degree than the gender-fsshion conformists? So Carl's concern has hit the nail on the head, IMHO.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by happykilt »

In Wikipedia:
Cross-dressing refers to the act of wearing items of clothing and other accoutrements commonly associated with the opposite sex within a particular society. Cross-dressing has been used for purposes of disguise, comfort, and as a literary trope in modern times and throughout history. It does not, however, necessarily indicate transgender identity.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing

So, that does not make any distinguish why someone chooses to wear a feminine garment.
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Re: The definition of Crossdressing...

Post by skirtingtheissue »

happykilt wrote:In Wikipedia:
... wearing items of clothing and other accoutrements commonly associated with the opposite sex within a particular society...
As a technical definition, yes. Technically peas and peanuts are fruits. In my self-defined usage guide, crossdressing is emulation of a female, and the mere wearing of one or two garments "commonly associated with the opposite sex" does not reach that threshold. I reject the word to define myself, as I do not emulate a female (and nothing feminine from the neck up). I reject the word for waitresses who wear jacket and tie, or even just the tie, an accoutrement clearly associated with the opposite sex. I think "fashion freestyler" is a good term, and I fully support the definition of the Freestyle Fashion topic (fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.)

What needs to happen, to avoid this type of discussion in this thread, is for skirts to become commonly associated with both sexes.
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