What kind of Knots do you use?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
skirted_in_SF
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by skirted_in_SF »

Kirbstone wrote: My opinion is that they ought to have invented another word for that, as the word Marriage has always meant the union of a man and a woman for the procreation of the Human Race.
I'm really not happy with this argument. That would mean my brother & sister-in-law's, my best friend of 40 years and his wife and a couple of my cousins marriages don't have validity. But I guess my lesbian co-worker and her wife would pass the test since they have a child together. :?
Stuart Gallion
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Tor
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by Tor »

crfriend wrote:I worked on the notion of "gay" (and I admit to really hating that term) marriage as contract law for some time, and am actually quite happy with the way it sorted out. It requires precisely no changes to other law (case or precedent) or even special verbiage: it's merely an interpretation of what the notion of marriage actually is -- and, even in historical times, when sometimes the law was administered by various religious authorities it's always been such a matter. Two individuals enter into a binding long-term contract with one another to protect their interests in the face of competition -- nothing anywhere explicitly states, other than for the sole point of (temporal) convention that the "institution" MUST be "between a man and a woman" (why not "a woman and a man"?).
Probably better now that I think about it, though I fear, with the case of the baker last fall as precedent and an example of what some are trying for, a bone thrown to the more narrow-minded religious folk may save some of the rest of us a good deal of grief in the future.
Of note is that some of the more interesting and, indeed, thought-provoking bits in this community do surface in the "Off Topic" section.
I would suspect that people prepared to gore sacred cows in as contrary a manner (though logical and sensible if one would think about it) as we have a high probability of being interesting, intelligent folk.
If you are comfortable with (1) who you are, (2) what you are, and (3) the look you choose to wear you will be fairly well immune to criticism -- especially shallow criticism.
Indeed, and in this case the goal is unrelated to skirts. While not as bold, perhaps (though does it matter? Or which was/would be bolder? Hmmm...), I have some experience with traveling off the beaten path.
human@world# ask_question --recursive "By what legitimate authority?"
dillon
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by dillon »

If marriage was purely an institution of chuches, then I wouldn't have a problem with however the word was defined; after all, I don't have to pay for any church, or obey its doctrines, or comply with its dogma. But I do have to pay taxes, just as my gay colleagues do. We pay the same taxes, and live under the same laws. So why should I be entitled to legal priveleges that they are not? If marriage is to be within the domain of governments, then it must be equally available to all citizens. If not, then we don't have egalitarian governance, but rather discriminatory theocracy. Any government that can invoke the name of God in its rule has a license to do anything, and justify it in the name of the Almighty.
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Kirbstone
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by Kirbstone »

skirted_in_SF wrote:
Kirbstone wrote: My opinion is that they ought to have invented another word for that, as the word Marriage has always meant the union of a man and a woman for the procreation of the Human Race.
I'm really not happy with this argument. That would mean my brother & sister-in-law's, my best friend of 40 years and his wife and a couple of my cousins marriages don't have validity. But I guess my lesbian co-worker and her wife would pass the test since they have a child together. :?
Well, Stuart, I wouldn't have described my original statement as an argument. Let's divide it in two: The 'Union of a man & a woman' has from the outset been described in our common language as marriage. Of course not all marriages are 'blessed' with natural children, but that has never been used as a test of validity of a marriage.....(unless you're King Henry the Eighth!)
The 'Procreation of the Human Race' is real Adam & Eve biblical stuff and the reason why they get together in the first place. That half of the sentence doesn't necessarily apply nowadays. There are rather a lot of 'us' about, just now.

The next little chestnut is that word 'Consummated'. Failure on that front has been used as grounds for divorce (Secular) or annulment (Religious) I'll put this question: How do Gays consummate?....or is it none or our business?

There was an amusing cartoon that appeared in 'Punch', an English humour magazine, long defunct. It illustrated an elderly family retainer seated in a bedroom outside a large curtained four-poster bed with a heavy family bible open on his knee, making a written entry therein.
A craggy skeletal very geriatric hand poked through the curtain and a finger pointed at the writing........

The caption read: Damn you, Carruthers!....There are TWO 'M's in 'Consummated '!

Tom
Carpe Diem......Seize the Day !
BobM
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by BobM »

I prefer to uses a flock of knots, around 30 or so, for cruising. Less for trolling.
Ordained Deacon and Ruling Elder, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church.
dillon
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by dillon »

Consummation, like beauty, I suppose, is left to the discernment of the beholder, or, in this case, the participants, to determine if it exists. Just as some M/F marriages are sexless, i.e. between individuals who cannot physically consummate or attach no importance to the act, if neither party complains then it seems there is no issue with the technicalities of consummation. That doesn't have much bearing on the broader idea that, at the point that governments assumed the authority to license marriage, then the institution was effectively liberated from religious canon and placed in the secular realm.

No one is attempting to force churches to recognize or endorse or perform same-sex marriages. In the US, at least, those institutions are constitutionally protected from such regulation.

Governments, however, (should) have an ethical obligation to treat citizens equally under law; if they can discriminate against certain citizens based on the individual's natural sexual orientation, then they can discriminate based on any other criteria, including race, ethnicity, age, sex, political belief, or religion. You don't have to look far from the shores of Europe, or very far back in history, to see how well such discriminatory practices serve their subjects.

I will never understand why social conservatives rail so vehemently against "big government" intrusion in our lives except when it comes to the bedroom or the doctor's office. Then they demand government snooping into people's personal sex lives and declaring eminent domain over the contents of a woman's uterus. The term 'hypocrisy' seems much too meek in this issue.
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couyalair
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Re: What kind of Knots do you use?

Post by couyalair »

I do so agree, Dillon.

Martin
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