Whats in a Name?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
Sarongman
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by Sarongman »

A purse was a male accessory in Tudor Britain and was a leather of canvas bag which tied at the top and was tied to the belt or girdle. There was an underclass that preyed on unsuspecting people from the country--these were called "cutpurse" Fast forward nearly 500 years and nothing much has changed except that the miscreant now gets a slap on the wrist and, back then, he could be hanged and gibbeted.
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couyalair
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by couyalair »

Well said, Stu.

If more anglophones learned other languages, they might get a broader view of the world and perhaps relax a few of their preconceived notions.

In Spain a kilt is a "falda" with exactly the same semantic range as "skirt", whatever the machos may feel about it, and an African is a "negro", whatever pc Northamericans may say.

I don't know when "cripple" went out of use, but ... who objected to the word? The unfortunate individuals referred to? or some squeamish holier-than-thou who thought that changing the name would make the problem go away?

This is not only an English-language phenomenon. The French have almost stopped using the words "aveugle" and "sourd" and prefer circumlocutions such as "having visual/aural difficulties"

Language is a fascinating thing. Just think; if our ancestors had not been avoiding non-pc words and changing names to suit fashion through the milennia, we'd all be speaking the same language now.

Martin
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by crfriend »

Thanks for the amplification, Stu; from that I can see that we are broadly on the same page. However, in the case of your Scotman who clearly seemed worried that his kilt was a [form of] skirt he pretty much got what he asked for -- a kilt is a specialised form of skirt. Out of respect, I would not have offered that observation to him unbidden, but if challenged on the matter would point out his lexical error.
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by Stu »

Martin

The term "cripple" used as a noun is much frowned upon these days - it is deemed politically incorrect, and even a term of abuse! I am not sure why that has occurred as it is, in my view, entirely neutral. We can say that someone has been "crippled" by arthritis - so the verb is fine - but the noun is a no-no. I think that's nuts, but that's how it is.

crfriend

He is one of my linguistic students and I was explaining the concept of hyponomy and used "kilt" as an example. Choosing the appropriate lexeme for any particular purpose is pragmatic. For example, I wouldn't refer to a distinguished naval admiral as just "a sailor" because he has a very specific role and title. I would always call a kilt a kilt - but if someone tries to tell me that a kilt is not a type of skirt, then I will correct them, as will most dictionaries if they look up the word "kilt".

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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by skirtyscot »

Sarongman wrote:A purse was a male accessory in Tudor Britain and was a leather of canvas bag which tied at the top and was tied to the belt or girdle. There was an underclass that preyed on unsuspecting people from the country--these were called "cutpurse" Fast forward nearly 500 years and nothing much has changed except that the miscreant now gets a slap on the wrist and, back then, he could be hanged and gibbeted.
In Britain we tend to think of our version of English as correct and the American version as wrong where it differs. Seems fair enough, it's our language after all! :D But you have found an example where the original meaning changed here but not in the USA. The only other one I can think of is "gotten" which apparently was in common usage here centuries ago but has died out.

And punishments have definitely got less harsh over the years. You used to be liable to be transported to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread, or to America for failing your spelling test! :lol:
Keep on skirting,

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crfriend
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by crfriend »

skirtyscot wrote:You used to be liable to be transported to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread, or to America for failing your spelling test! :lol:
At least us Yanks managed to get away with a few vowels still left in our [version of the] language. Look what happened to the poor Welsh! :bom:
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Sarongman
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by Sarongman »

Ahh, yes, transportation! The British police should arrest Julian Assange and sentence him to transportation, for the term of his natural life, to Australia! :bom: :bom:
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skirtyscot
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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by skirtyscot »

Well they were seriously considering doing the first half of that, at least, until someone pointed out that if we go kicking our way into foreign embassies in London, we won't really be able to complain if it happens to our embassies abroad. And it would be open season for dodgy regimes to attack the embassies in their cities, and then say "But if the British do it, so can we".

I predict he will be spirited away in the night in the boot of a car and into a waiting boat, and the press won't notice for weeks afterwards.
Keep on skirting,

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Re: Whats in a Name?

Post by Since1982 »

I'd like to refer back to a word "undies" in whatever language or another that has been in use probably 50,000 years or more in some spelling or carving on a cave wall or tent meaning in one spelling or whatever a piece of underclothes that covers the area between the waist and the top of the thighs. In the beginning it was probably a short wrap skirt, before pants of any kind were invented. :D :D :D

I don't know why we should care why people wear what under their various skirted garments anyway!! :faint:
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