Wearing women's jeans

[Sarongman]

As to the left over/ right over debate, i have a favourite, good quality womens heavyweight silk shirt and, I am sure, nobody has ever noticed the difference. The change if format is far more obvious in a shirt and, if we are wearing unbifurcated clothing in the first place, what's the drama in jeans? People are not really looking for details like this.

[whitesocks]

Hi Sarongman, I have to agree that no one seems to take any notice and I quite often wear womens's shirts, t-shirts and three quarter sleeve tops all have right over left buttons and no one has ever commented. However, to start with I was incredibly self concious of this fact and was terrified somone might say something. Of course over the years this has changed to I couldn't really care less and almost always wear women's jeans and tops all with right over left closures knowing that no one will take any notice at all.

[FloralSkirt]

Just because people do not come up to you & yell " OMG! Your wearing women's jeans!" does not mean they are unaware. They know. Stop diluting yourself. Step out of the fog dear Prudence! You have to watch for more subtle hints that indicate knowledge.

The sun is out, the sky is blue, its beautiful & so are you, dear Prudence, go put on your skirt & play!

[rick401r]

I was walking thru the mall wearing a pair of women's Levis. As I passed 2 girls in their 20's I guess, I noticed one of them glance down to my jeans. After we passed each other I turned around and saw her whisper something to the other girl then she turned and looked back at me.
Yes, some do notice but just don't say anything. That's okay. I notice things too and never say anything.

[FloralSkirt]

If you wear the wide leg style, then people will notice. Otherwise, not so much.

[crfriend]

Warning: rant follows.

I hate to be a bore, but I'll challenge anyone here regarding the question of, "Why does wearing women's styled trousers help in the getting acceptance of skirted garments on men one whit?"

Note: I am not writing this as a moderator, I am writing this as an individual contributor.

If you want to wear women's clothing, fine; do not, however conflate it with getting skirted rigs accepted on guys. Women's trousers are (now) very different things from what's available to men: the fabrics are finer, the cuts are different, and the styles are different -- however, these are women's styles, not men's, and the "borrowing" of said garments does precisely nothing to get skirted garments accepted.

Bluntly put, if all you want to do is wear women's clothing, then there are better places for you -- there are positively thousands of cross-dressing sites available to satisfy your need. If you want the freedom of feel that skirts offer, state it; if you lament the boring choice of fabrics available on menswear, state it; if you think the cut of a garment is particularly suited for purpose, state it. Commenting merely along the lines of, "I wear women's pants" merely hints up at a tendency for crossdressing.

[FloralSkirt]

I dont understand. You say crossdressing like it is some bad thing. WTF>? Its not. Its called freedom.. Get into it!

Why can't you accept all? And men in skirts is very close to if not actual cross dressing, I LOL when you try & make it out like it is somehow in the distance. Its not. Stop living a lie dude!

[Uncle Al]

I dont understand. You say crossdressing like it
is some bad thing. WTF>? Its not. Its called freedom.. Get into it!

Why can't you accept all? And men in skirts is very close to if not
actual cross dressing, I LOL when you try & make it out like it is
somehow in the distance. Its not. Stop living a lie dude!

Personally, wearing 'jeans' of any style or cut is still wearing 'jeans'.
Mens 'jeans' allow room for the male 'bits'. Womens 'jeans' do not.
Wearing womens 'jeans' is not fashion freedom for men. It's still 'jean's
or pants---a bifurcated garment. The main goal of this forum is to
get skirts accepted as part of mans wardrobe choices. Yes, to some it
is cross-dressing by today's standards. We're trying to change these
standards. Wearing womens 'jeans' is not changing anything except
putting a crunch on something men don't want crunched.

The majority of the Cafe' members are adults 18 years and older.
However there are a few members and many lurkers who are under
18 years of age. Please try to avoid using profanity or acronyms
to represent profanity.

Crfriend's statement of "...I'll challenge anyone here regarding the
question of, "Why does wearing women's styled trousers help in
getting the acceptance of skirted garments on men ....?"....." is correct.
Men wearing womens styled trousers does not emphasize the lack of a
skirted garment for men. It just shows that men are sheep and still
wear trousers.

If you want to wear anything from the womens side of the shopping
aisle, that's OK with me. But it is not in the best interests of the members
of Skirt Cafe' who are trying to change today's standards and get
Men In Skirts as an accepted norm as Women In Trousers is an
accepted norm.

This is my opinion of what Skirt Cafe' stands for, and I've been around
this arena long before the name was changed to Skirt Cafe'.
I've seen many improvements in styles of skirts for men. Even greater
acceptance of Men in Skirts/Kilts as everyday clothing choices.
But we still have an extremely long way to go in eradicating any
and all prejudices against Men In Skirts.

Uncle Al

[FloralSkirt]

"Even greater acceptance of Men in Skirts/Kilts as everyday clothing choices.
But we still have an extremely long way to go in eradicating any
and all prejudices against Men In Skirts."

Your scared! You have MORE in common with cross dressers than you want to admit!(prejudicewise) The above coincides with prejudice against cross dressers.

You kidding yourself if you think you can get 1 norm accepted & not the other. Your as bad as those who you feel are oppressing/holding you back!!

And the young kids prob. have heard more & use worse language than what I posted. get in the real world dude!

[Sarongman]

I can see certain standards of decency being pushed to their limits here. Members on this board are usually fair minded enough to tolerate some heated debate, but I can see a note of personal abuse creeping in. Please back off before we see another unedifying brawl. If certain members feel that this site is not "adventurous" enough then, maybe, they should seriously reconsider their membership. (edited to insert the first 'e' in heated- otherwise t'was a Freudian slip!)

[whitesocks]

I feel extremely saddened to see a light hearted debate completely swamped by rather unwarrented comments. The whole point of this thread is to test the tolerance of the general public towards a slightly different outlook on life, in this case the wearing of clothes that are not normally associated with that gender in that part of the world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and the reasons for doing so are many fold but need not all be bad. I enjoy it because of the fit and style of the clothes and I cannot get this typs of fit, leg length mainly, in men's jeans and men's t-shirts tend to be just far too baggy for me. But that is my personal taste no other reason.

I cannot understand why comments have to descend to such low levels when the point of this board is to obtain acceptance from the general public towards a pretty mundane topic. It does nothing to help the cause if all we do is bicker and throw slanderous comments.

[Since1982]

Floral Skirt said: I dont understand. You say crossdressing like it is some bad thing. WTF>? Its not. Its called freedom.. Get into it!

Why can't you accept all? And men in skirts is very close to if not actual cross dressing, I LOL when you try & make it out like it is somehow in the distance. Its not. Stop living a lie dude!

This whole argument is soo simple to settle. Just go to the top of the page, where the mission statement is, click the here and read this by Bob, the site administrator.>>

Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. In particular, we recognize that gender is a complex subject and some of us may feel more "masculine" or "feminine" at times. However, this is NOT a transvestite or crossdresser forum. We are committed to a fundamentally masculine gender identity --- masculine name and pronouns. We call it "gender honesty." Beyond that, what it means to be a man is individual and open to discussion.

[crfriend]

I feel extremely saddened to see a light hearted debate completely swamped by rather unwarrented comments.

As a moderator here, I'm especially perturbed by the thread heading down the path into ad-hominem mudslinging. If it continues that way, the thread will get locked.

The whole point of this thread is to test the tolerance of the general public towards a slightly different outlook on life, in this case the wearing of clothes that are not normally associated with that gender in that part of the world.

That's true enough, however the discussion was tightly focussed on trouser-style garments whereas this forum is established to advocate and explore the notion of getting skirted garments accepted on men -- not another style of trousers.

I enjoy it because of the fit and style of the clothes and I cannot get this typs of fit, leg length mainly, in men's jeans and men's t-shirts tend to be just far too baggy for me.

Now, here we have reasoning that we can grab hold of, analyze, and appreciate -- it has substance; merely saying, "cos I like it!" does not. If one likes something, there's usually a reason why, and possibly others might be intrigued with the "why" of the matter.

In my case, I took up skirts initially out of curiosity -- after the initial exploration the notions of comfort began to gel, and finally an impression of just precisely how bloody awful most men's "fashion" is these days. I find modern men's "fashion" so utterly boring that I felt I had no choice but to resort to something "extreme". Will it be jeans or khakis today? Will it be loose or baggy? Will it be denim or some cotton duck knock-off? That's not choice; that's stultifying boredom. So, for me, it's more complex than simple style. I recognise that there are times when trousers are a utilitarian and a wise choice; however, when I don't need to be utilitarian, I want the freedom to chose "one 'pipe' or two", I want the freedom to choose what type of fabric I wear, and I want a larger colour pallette to work with.

The last flourish of experimentation at anything like a large scale in men's fashion and style was thirty years ago -- before several community members here were born, and likely before a lot of the folks "browsing" here were born. The question is whether that can be reinvigorated or whether men will be stuck in "jeans" (intended for either sex) or whether we'll be able to recapture that sublimely comfortable and versatile garment -- the skirt -- again.

I cannot understand why comments have to descend to such low levels [...]

It's this writer's experience that people resort to invective and ad-hominem behaviours when they are out of ideas. It's the equivalent of the action-movie sequence of throwing the gun at somebody when you're out of ammunition. (And just as futile.)

[FloralSkirt]

I get where your coming from. But it seems like your discriminating or being extremely condescending to cross dressers. THATS the issue. The way you mention cross dressing suggests that it is so horrible that it should be stunned & stricken from the internet forever! It sounds like your rationalizing your discomfort of that group by repeating forum rules. If you want acceptance, it seems logical to me you would extend the same privilege to all, not only those you favour.

[crfriend]

[... I]t seems like your discriminating or being extremely condescending to cross dressers. THATS the issue

I sincerely doubt that any citizen of this forum would deny any cross-dresser the freedom to engage in his passion any more than they would likely deny somebody the freedom to enjoy a good beer. It's just the the two groups have -- or at least seem to have -- divergent goals in mind. Note the lead-in sentence at the masthead; there is not one mention of "cross-dressing" in it, nor does there need to be.

The way you mention cross dressing suggests that it is so horrible that it should be stunned & stricken from the internet forever!

Untrue. If one wanders the various trails of the World Wide Web, one will find a plethora of on-line resources for "orthodox" crossdressers, and we at SkirtCafe counsel that if one wants to role-play, any of those resources are more suited to your needs than SkirtCafe. SkirtCafe is about expanding men's fashion -- in the context of being men -- not of role-playing women.

It sounds like your rationalizing your discomfort of that group by repeating forum rules.

All communities have rules, and SkirtCafe is no exception. Bifurcated garments -- designed for either sex -- are tangential topics of conversation here; repeated reference to bifurcated garments designed explicitly for women tips the scales towards "orthodox" crossdressing which is neither what SkirtCafe is about nor even tangential to what SkirtCafe is about.