Clothing as "product packaging" -- for men

[AMM]

Women's fashion (at least as we in Western countries know it) is to a large extent what I call "product packaging." That is, one of its more important goals is to make the wearer look more desirable, whether for marriage, for sex, or just as adornment (like the ubiquitous woman in evening gown draped across the expensive sports car in those ads.) While I can see that being told that this is your only purpose in life is a drag, I think that a little of this could be fun -- for either gender.

So a challenge/query: if you could throw away all of society's prejudices about what is "appropriate" for men, and just wanted to design clothing for men whose primary purpose was to make the wearer look desirable, to make people[*] want to possess him, to drool over him and to -- well, since this is a "family friendly" site, I won't go into details, let's just say, "have their way with him" -- what sort of clothes would you come up with?

Some of the things that I can think of in women's clothes:

• Reveal more of the body, especially those parts that distinguish male from female. This is done either by simply exposing more, like with short skirts or plunging necklines or sheer blouses, or by making the clothing tighter and more form-revealing, such as women's trousers (which are always tight enough to show what isn't there) or fitted shirts and blouses. Tights would fall into this category, too.
• Tantalize, by suggesting that one might get to see more if one looked more closely. Translucent fabrics are an obvious example, but loose skirts that might blow up in a breeze, or slips or other underwear that sort of peek out are others.
• Bright colors, bright patterns, lace, decorations, etc. Basically, stuff that draws attention to the wearer.
• Soft or soft-looking fabrics. The idea is to make people want to touch it, and thus the wearer.

Any ideas what might work? This is a place where input from the women (or gay men, too) would be useful.

[*] Of course, you knew people = women, right?

[Kris]

"Reveal more of the body, especially those parts that distinguish male from female."

A codpiece?

Kris
(Not my style, but I couldn't resist!)

[Big and Bashful]

"Reveal more of the body, especially those parts that distinguish male from female."

A codpiece?

Kris
(Not my style, but I couldn't resist!)

Now that's a scary thought!

[Since1982]

Now that's a scary thought!

I'd think a Big and Bashful codpiece is a scary thought! weeeeeeeeoooooo!!

[Peter v]

There is no "one" recipie", as just look at how men present themselves now, all different. Any combination of clothes could work, because it is always the whole total look, and especially the look or aura if you like, from your face that is determinining. Any good combination that suits that person is suitable. I do agree that opening up men's fashion to the same possibilitys as that which women now enjoy would provide so much more choice and bring a refinement to men's fashion some of us are so longing for. Yet again, most men seem very happy with things as they are, and only busy themselves with where thay can find cold beer.

No matter what garment is worn, it is still so important that it can be used as a tool by the wearer to in this case enhance the the properties, the desired effect that person is wanting at that moment.

[Sasquatch]

I'll have to mull this over a while before giving a meaningful answer, but these days I feel like the only clothing that would make me attractive is a suit made of hundred-dollar bills and the woman had been drinking heavily.

Sasq

[alexthebird]

Part of me responds to AMM by saying "duh" - it's about time you guys realized this.

But then I remember my own experience and its not that simple. This isn't just about how we sell ourselves for sex or popularity or acceptance or power. It's how we want to express ourselves visually to the rest of the world. About the same time that I began getting comfortable wearing skirts in public, I also began to look for trousers that fit me better and had a little style, shirts and sweaters that had some color, styles that worked with pants and skirts, shoes with a little style, etc. I want to look good, and while there is no objective measure about what looking good means, I know what it means to me.

I want people to look at me and be impressed. Sometimes, that means a slim, softly draped black skirt with a lavender V-neck cotton sweater and sometimes its a pink silk mock turtleneck under a grey sportcoat with black jeans. It means different things at different times, but I know when I've got it right.

I think that on the whole, women think more about this than men do. Men can slap on a (black T/any color polo shirt/blue or white oxford button down shirt) over a pair of (khakis/blue jeans) and look presentable and utterly invisible. Most of us just don't think about it, and as a result, we just don't think about the image we present to the world. I don't think that's true about women. I think most women do care about how they look, if for no other reason than self-respect.

[Since1982]

I just dislike being told repeatedly that "only" wearing traditionally "female" clothes is "refined". I think any person that is at ease with what he/she wears and is clean and neat with his/her look is refined, no matter what he/she's wearing. One person's wear is not neccesarily the only refined look here. Hear, Hear, Alex the Bird

[Milfmog]

So a challenge/query: if you could throw away all of society's prejudices about what is "appropriate" for men, and just wanted to design clothing for men whose primary purpose was to make the wearer look desirable, to make people[*] want to possess him, to drool over him and to -- well, since this is a "family friendly" site, I won't go into details, let's just say, "have their way with him" -- what sort of clothes would you come up with?

For me it would be Sasq's visible ca$h...

...plus a bag over my head

Have fun,


Ian.

[ChrisM]

Interesting topic!

Historically of course, what makes a man desirable is his success, in modern society meaning financial success. Thus a smartly-tailored $1000 suit broadcasts "success."

One could argue that it's the man's brains (=key to his success) rather than his body that sells. So maybe he should go 'round dressed in cap and gown, including the sash proclaiming his advanced degrees, if any.

But as regards the body only, that is why James Bond and Jim West both wear short suitcoats, ending just above the waist and sharply tapered to highlight their broad shoulders and slender waist. Jim West always wears stirrup pants so that his legs look long and lean, and his backside is taut. A moderately high heel helps this, by exaggerating the height and imply greater slenderness to the legs.

C

[Peter v]

I just dislike being told repeatedly that "only" wearing traditionally "female" clothes is "refined". I think any person that is at ease with what he/she wears and is clean and neat with his/her look is refined, no matter what he/she's wearing. One person's wear is not neccesarily the only refined look here. Hear, Hear, Alex the Bird

Yes, quite right. A very reasonably line of thought and I agree with that.

Although the "only" wearing traditionally "female" clothes is "refined" statement may be out of context, on it's own it does seem at first a bit crude. But in context there is much to say for it. As always looking with tunnel vision or wide vision we can see the same thing, but with wide vision we can see the "object " in full context. As with all opinions, we all have the right to our own.

Although "refined" may also be refined in the same sense that a expensive tailored three piece suit is compared to a T shirt and jeans. Even though the same man may wear those T shirt and jeans himself at another time and be "refined in his own right, for the purpose at hand. I am sure that nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

I would have liked to see "wearing traditionally female clothes may be the most suited to many skirts at this time." That is less binding.

Refined often means delicate materials, non work clothing, more the things women would wear when not needing practical protective clothing. As women clothing is generally "refined", it is inherent, in the way it is made, fashioned, and are the ones who would mostly wear those clothes, there may be reference to that fact. And men's clothing just isn't made to give a certain look that is now found by many men to be more propper after they have discovered the finer skirts available, and like wearing them. They are just whole new discoveries on fashion for them and require new thinking.

The statement I think does not imply that all skirted outfits need to be worn with traditionally female clothing. A bit of interpretation on the matter should lighten things up a little.

And as men's clothing is generally more ented on being sturdy,(men's shoes) durable, actually deliberately not giving a "refined" ( finely clothed ) image, by body shape alone, and the fact that men's fashion still has somehow a "dominant" styling, that possibly related to the fact that most men still have the positions of power in our society, makes men's clothing "less delicate", less refined.

When wearing skirts that are in themselves fine clothing, they """"require"""" ( personal taste ) the same from the rest of the clothes worn with them. As "refined " clothing is generally not part of men's clothing, then at this time 2008, men can if they like, seek items in the women's department. It is a transitional thing. As the tendancy in men's fashion is to slowly integrate more of the nice things from the women's side of fashion, men wearing the "finer " skirts should benefit from that, and it should be more and more easier with regards to skirt wearing for men to wear clothing from men's fashion that fits well with the more refined skirts.

[Inertia]

I'm fascinated by this topic, partly because it's something men don't usually talk about, and partly because it's a wonderful question.

I think part of the answer is, it depends on personal taste. I've mentioned before that, being a woman, I like to look at men's legs, and men in skirts (particularly kilts) let me see those legs to a greater degree than men wearing trousers. That being said, I think a lot of it has to do with the confidence with which a man wears his clothing, in the same way that a woman's attitude toward herself influences the way men see her.

If you look at men's and women's formal clothing, you'll notice that women's evening gowns give the impression of vulnerability, whereas men's broad-shouldered, well-armoured formal suits are more like a threat-display. Sometimes this can be very attractive to a woman; but on the other hand, the polished designer suits that salesmen show up in turn me off completely. I'd be much more inclined to listen to these guys if they showed up in a kilt. Is this because I hate having people try to intimidate me into buying something? Or just because I like to look at men's legs? I don't know.

All in all, I'd say, wear what you're most comfortable with, what you know looks good on you. Find out what looks good on you, pay some attention to that, and wear it; it's bound to be excellent "packaging" for your "product" if you have the right attitude toward it.

Cheers,

Inertia

[Since1982]

As "refined " clothing is generally not part of men's clothing, then at this time 2008, men can if they like, seek items in the women's department.

Am I going crazy and not seeing things correctly or is someone saying here that men can only find refined clothing in the women's department of a store? I really don't understand what I think I'm seeing and I need help understanding.

[AMM]

...I'd say, wear ... what you know looks good on you. Find out what looks good on you,...

Sounds simple, but that simple phrase "looks good on you" covers up a lot of complexity.

First of all, what sort of good "look" do you want? For example, as you point out, men's and women's evening wear strive for very different effects: women's evening wear projects elegant desirability (like a Godiva chocolate), while men's projects dominance. What "looks good" if you're aiming for one effect looks stupid or terrible if you're aiming for the other -- or if people assume, based on your gender, which effect you must be aiming for. This applies to pretty much all the "looks" that people cultivate.

The point of my original post was that "being desirable" is not a look that men have cultivated, so we don't have any examples of how we might do it, let alone any clothes, fashion magazines, etc., that would explore it. Assuming anyone (esp. any men) here are interested in this sort of look, we would have to brainstorm ideas as to how men (as opposed to women) could dress to project it.

Second of all, the way to find out what "looks good" is to try various things out. If we (men) restrict ourselves to clothes made for men, we will find ourselves "looking good," perhaps, but only according to the "looks" that men customarily strive for. On the other hand, if we (men) try clothes made for women which would give the "look" we want, they won't fit very well, and they will emphasize the wrong things (e.g., our not-so-ample bosums ) Neither way is very good for "looking good" in a new way.

(By the way, this is the reason I tend to sew my own skirts -- the only manufactured skirts I wear any more are ones I wear when I don't want to look particularly sharp.)

Maybe this is why I'm not all that excited by most of the stuff people show here. It seems to me that most of the time, they look around at what's for sale for women, buy stuff that looks likely, and hope that maybe it won't look so bad on them. I seldom see people starting out with an idea of what they would like to wear and then finding (or making) something that looks like their idea.

Anyway, I guess I should have asked at the beginning: are there any people here who are interested in the idea of fashions that make men look more desirable, in the way I described in my original post?

[Departed Member]

As "refined " clothing is generally not part of men's clothing, then at this time 2008, men can if they like, seek items in the women's department.

Am I going crazy and not seeing things correctly or is someone saying here that men can only find refined clothing in the women's department of a store? I really don't understand what I think I'm seeing and I need help understanding.

Yeah, Skip, I'm equally intrigued by this statement. So, refined clothing only resides in the women's department, does it? But so do leggings and other such (shall we be polite?) dross!