How to Look Androgynous

[dillon]

Try this:

http://snltranscripts.org/90/90tpat.phtml

[Uncle Al]

Sorry - Link doesn't work

Uncle Al

[Grok]

Overlooked the Macabi skirt. Another plausible candidate for an androgynous skirt. The plain appearance of the garment suggests that it could be gender neutral. It looks plausible on both men and women. Definitely not invisible, though. As has been commented in the past, the usefulness for outdoor activities is what appealed to some men. What has not yet occurred is a broad acceptance, if not popularization.

In the meantime, I would suppose that it remains commercially viable due to the female clientele.

[Grok]

The androgyny article didn't cover shoes, exactly, but a few styles are functionally androgynous.

[Ralph]

Humorously, the suggested content sidebar next to that shoe article was an ehow video on "how to date a crossdresser".

Getting back to the topic at hand, a lot of sportswear is gender-neutral. A lady I work with is fond of these jackets from Cabelas... a pullover style made of glossy microfiber that looks a bit like satin in the light. I went to the Cabela's website and found that they make essentially the same style for men and women... a couple of tiny differences that you'd have to get right up close and examine in detail to notice. The main difference? The women's was $15, the men's was $35. Guess which one I bought.

It's androgynous enough that I don't mind wearing it out on my morning jogs or to Walmart. The only place I *don't* wear it is when I'm going to be meeting the lady who wore the original that inspired me. "Hey, I have that exact jacket! Don't you realize you're wearing the women's style?"

Here's the women's version:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas- ... 750959.uts

And here's the men's version:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas- ... 403504.uts

I remember now, the difference is that the women's version has a drawstring at the waist and the men's version just uses a stretchy knit band around the waist. Also, at the moment the men's version is on sale for $15 vs. the women's at $35. Go figure. Too late, Cabela's, I made my decision last year!

[skirtilator]

I cannot see free-stylers or any androgynous style having any influence whatsoever on the general public, unless it be, as suggested earlier by Grok, in the form of jeans/denim.
I feel that the only people likely to influence younger men in general would be the adoption in a totally non-feminine way (ie: no make-up, heels, suggestive mannerisms) by heroes of the sporting, film and pop music world. Beckham's sarongs have often been mentioned, just as K West's faux kilt, but they were one-off events, more or less denied subsequently. The only full-timer I could mention is Marc Jacob. Many of his photos look really good (simple kilt, not androgynous at all) and could win general approval, but unfortunately, he also goes overboard with dresses in lace or strawberry pink. Whatever members of this forum may think of that, I am quite certain the general public disapproves completely. And it's not likely to change.

Martin

If you wear a skirt, you want to be a woman. Why? Because a skirt is feminine, that simple. There is no objective truth in styles, so you can make stuff up all day long. I am androgynous, cuz I wear tights with my skirts, even though there are tights labeled men tights out there.
The dresses btw. look really cool. There is no "unfortunately," this is the way to go if you want to look adrogynous instead of a drab and dull lumberjack. Couture fashion is a form of art, but that doesn't mean, it couldn't be adopted in some way.

I'd say a pleated skirt with colored tights combined with a suit jacket, no facial hair below the eyes, braided hear, boots as an option and a overall delicate appearance, that's the way to go for me, if I was aiming for an androgynous look.

[Sinned]

If you wear a skirt, you want to be a woman. Why? Because a skirt is feminine, that simple.

Sorry but I disagree with you most strongly. I wear a skirt but I don't do it because I want to be a woman. I'm very firmly attached to a certain part of my anatomy and don't wish to have boobs. As has been mentioned many times in this forum women may have had exclusive use of the skirt for a time but it's not an exclusively female garment and not all skirts look feminine. TBH some of them look frankly ridiculous even on a woman!

[Grok]

Been thinking about a story awhile back, about men wearing sarongs at a beach; apparently it was deemed just barely acceptable for a man to wear a sarong, and only at the beach, and only with other men in sarongs. An implication is that sarongs as mens wear-are in a sort of limbo. Not absolutely rejected by mainstream society, but only barely tolerated, and only in a narrow context. I think that caftans on men also have a limbos status, being deemed just barely tolerable. An implication is that imported MUGs (Male Unbifurcated Garment) may be in a limbo status, if not rejected outright. Could a garment eventually graduate to mainstream status? Perhaps sarongs will someday, at least as beach wear, and be deemed no more eccentric than the bathrobe hanging in your closet. Caftans might come to be seen as mainstream lounge wear for men. Conceivably other imported MUGs might graduate, if they can be naturalized; that is, lose their foreign status; consider "Celtic" sarongs or tie dye caftans. I don't know about new MUG designs; in the first place such are subject to the chicken/egg dilemma.

Awhile back I mentioned that there is a latent acceptance of men in robes. These might be worn as lounge wear. For the remainder of the 21st century, I think that only sarongs and robe-like garments have a chance of being embraced by mainstream men.

[Grok]

I have described kilts as a special case. Who will wear them? Other than those who can claim a Celtic heritage, two small-ish groups, kilties and mugmen.

[Grok]

Given my low expectations for the mainstream, what else is possible? I think that skirts that are candidates for androgyny will have a limbo status, at best. These might conceivably include denim, Macabi, and those skirts some men wear for square dancing. DIY projects, perhaps. Conceivabably skirts from the other side of the aisle, if somewhat plain in appearance. As for men who might wear such, I think that at best they will be seen as mildly eccentric.

[crfriend]

I have described kilts as a special case. Who will wear them? Other than those who can claim a Celtic heritage, two small-ish groups, kilties and mugmen.

Kilts are, indeed, a "special case", but that's more down to the "brand image" than anything else, and that's the primary reason that I take care to call out real kilts as kilts (and in this case, I am a bit of a purist).

What I'm curious about here is the seemingly endless analysis of what might happen in the future instead of concrete thoughts of what can be done now. Is there something wrong with actually taking responsibility and doing something instead of just musing about it? "Real men" act on things when the need arises, not just hypothesize about it.

[Grok]

Analysis is something I have had to offer, requiring considerable time and research on my part. It is a gift I have offered. if that is construed as a lack of responsibility, then I have over stayed my welcome.

[crfriend]

Analysis is something I have to offer; it is a gift I have offered. if that is construed as a lack of responsibility, then I have over stayed my welcome.

My comment was not a condemnation, but merely an observation.

"Analysis Paralysis" is a very real phenomenon which can cause otherwise rational forward-thinkers to lock up entirely. At some point in time, the analysis has to stop and the notions uncovered so far by that analysis need to be put into motion even if only by way of experiment.

It is by experiment that we actually move forward in the physical world. Sometimes the experiment fails, and then it's up to us to lick our wounds and try to figure out where the analysis went wrong. But, without physical experiment we can never actually test whether the analysis was right (or wrong) in the first place. This is called "science".

If you're of the aerospace bent, study the early years of the US Apollo mission to the moon. There was no consensus whatsoever on the best way to accomplish it and there was much infighting between teams that had conflicting views. This could have stopped the entire thing cold, and almost did.

I am also drawn to a piece of humour posted somewhere on SkirtCafé in the past few days about the different responses to a fire by an engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician. In that mix, I am very much the engineer. Flogging a notion beyond where a practical solution may be had is usually an effort in futility unless one is trying desperately to optimize the solution. History has shown that usually the "first one to market" will "win" whether it's optimal or not and that going much beyond operational when it comes to optimization is an effort in rapidly-diminishing returns.

Analysis is absolutely necessary, but so is action. Perhaps a more concrete example may be had of what goes on within the Ivory Tower of academia and the stuff that engineers and artisans need to make work in the Real World. "No, I should NOT have to remove a motor-mount to replace a starter." That's a real example, by the way; to replace the starter in a Ford Pinto, one needed to remove the starboard motor-mount and jack the engine up. BTDT, I am not imagining it.